Holding a stone

[ninestone]

Why do we hold the stones between the way we do? It doesn't seem any more functional than using one's thumb as the second finger. Granted there's a coolness factor, but there has to be some historical reason too.

[mw42]

I don't know of any other reason other than that it really is the best method to place a stone on the board. Once you get used to it, it is perfect -- like eating noodles with chopsticks.

[entropi]

Isn't it just easier? It may require a small getting used to it, but then it is just easier to place the stones on board like that, especially on a crowded board in the end-game.

[entropi]

This reminds another story about holding the drum sticks while playing snare drum or in general the whole drum set.

For the right hand, it is the normal match grip how you hold the stick. But for the left hand, the old jazz masters used to hold it between the thumb and the fourth finger in a weird way, which was called the traditional grip.

Some people argue for it like it looks cool, it is easier go play a rim-shot, it is better for the wrist, better leverage, etc etc etc. But the reality is that it is very uncomfortable and it is just a tradition coming from the army drummers who had to hang the snare drum so that it rests on their hips. There is no other real reason to use this uncomfortable grip on a drum set where you can sit and adjust all the angles of each drum. People still use the traditional grip though.

But this has nothing to do with the way we hold the go stones.

[gaius]

entropi, isn't that just a relatively easy way to play roffles (is that the English word) with one hand, in between the cymbal swing rhythm, on the snare drum? For regular funk or rock drumming it doesn't really make sense, but the old-skool beboppers played their music a lot different.

Off topic: I'm glad my drummer doesn't do this . I used to play bebop piano, but lately the funk got hold of me. It's so sweet...

[flOvermind]

I don't know about placing the stone, but IMHO the "traditional" grip is definitely the easiest way to get stones out of the bowl (or in general, deep narrow spaces).

It's also useful for getting candy out of the bag

[entropi]

entropi, isn't that just a relatively easy way to play roffles (is that the English word) with one hand, in between the cymbal swing rhythm, on the snare drum? For regular funk or rock drumming it doesn't really make sense, but the old-skool beboppers played their music a lot different.

Off topic: I'm glad my drummer doesn't do this . I used to play bebop piano, but lately the funk got hold of me. It's so sweet...

Yes, I heard that argument too but in my opinion it is just a matter of getting used to it. You can do it with match grip as well, and even easier. For roffles (I also don't know the english word but I understand what you mean:)) with traditional grip you would use the first two fingers, whereas with match grip you can use the last three fingers. Not a dramatical difference but I find the match grip much more intuitive and easier.

It surely affects your playing style especially when you play swingy things like bebop where the snare pattern is much less predefined. It is a kind of restriction that slightly forces you play more in the traditional direction. But apart from that I honestly don't see any advantage of it.

I used to play funk style as well, but recently got more interested in traditional ethnical kinds of music. Maybe we could jam some time, when we meet for a tournament for example. If you are in utrecht, we are only about 50 (?) kilometers away from each other

[judicata]

It only took me a game or two to adapt to the "traditional" way of holding a stone, and it just makes sense to me. Also, I saw some people picking up the stone with their thumb and index finger and rolling/flipping it to the traditional grip - if that makes sense. I thought it looked neat, but I never really tried it--now I find that I do the exact same thing.

You can do it with match grip as well, and even easier. For roffles (I also don't know the english word but I understand what you mean:)) ...

You're probably referring to different types of "rolls," including paradiddles.

[shapenaji]

Why do we hold the stones between the way we do? It doesn't seem any more functional than using one's thumb as the second finger. Granted there's a coolness factor, but there has to be some historical reason too.

Lets do a gedanken experiment. The game is almost over, the whole board is filled except one last half point ko. You pick up the stone with your thumb and forefinger to try to take the ko,

Now, when you try to take the ko, where does the joint in your thumb end up? You're stuck either dropping the stone into the ko, or messing up the stones around it.

If you hold between your middle and index finger, the fingers tilt away from the board rather than toward the board. meaning that you can actually place the stone in this situation without dropping it.

[judicata]

Lets do a gedanken experiment. The game is almost over, the whole board is filled except one last half point ko. You pick up the stone with your thumb and forefinger to try to take the ko,

Now, when you try to take the ko, where does the joint in your thumb end up? You're stuck either dropping the stone into the ko, or messing up the stones around it.

If you hold between your middle and index finger, the fingers tilt away from the board rather than toward the board. meaning that you can actually place the stone in this situation without dropping it.

As my previous post indicates - I agree. But does this really apply to single-convex stones?

[gaius]

Lets do a gedanken experiment. The game is almost over, the whole board is filled except one last half point ko. You pick up the stone with your thumb and forefinger to try to take the ko,

Now, when you try to take the ko, where does the joint in your thumb end up? You're stuck either dropping the stone into the ko, or messing up the stones around it.

If you hold between your middle and index finger, the fingers tilt away from the board rather than toward the board. meaning that you can actually place the stone in this situation without dropping it.

As my previous post indicates - I agree. But does this really apply to single-convex stones?

Simple answer: yes. Just try it!

[shapenaji]

As my previous post indicates - I agree. But does this really apply to single-convex stones?

Sure, they'll be a bit more angled when they first touch the board, but then you can push down, for that satisfying snap

[entropi]

It only took me a game or two to adapt to the "traditional" way of holding a stone, and it just makes sense to me. Also, I saw some people picking up the stone with their thumb and index finger and rolling/flipping it to the traditional grip - if that makes sense. I thought it looked neat, but I never really tried it--now I find that I do the exact same thing.

You can do it with match grip as well, and even easier. For roffles (I also don't know the english word but I understand what you mean:)) ...

You're probably referring to different types of "rolls," including paradiddles.

Well it is also a kind of roll but you do it with one hand by pressing the top of the stick against the drum-head then use fingers to continue. Very difficult technique. It has a specific name which I don't remember now. At least that's what I understood from "roffle"

[ethanb]

It only took me a game or two to adapt to the "traditional" way of holding a stone, and it just makes sense to me. Also, I saw some people picking up the stone with their thumb and index finger and rolling/flipping it to the traditional grip - if that makes sense. I thought it looked neat, but I never really tried it--now I find that I do the exact same thing.

You can do it with match grip as well, and even easier. For roffles (I also don't know the english word but I understand what you mean:)) ...

You're probably referring to different types of "rolls," including paradiddles.

Well it is also a kind of roll but you do it with one hand by pressing the top of the stick against the drum-head then use fingers to continue. Very difficult technique. It has a specific name which I don't remember now. At least that's what I understood from "roffle"

I've only heard that called a "double-tap" or "double-bounce" but I also played flute in high school band, guitar and bass guitar afterward, and only started learning drums a couple of years ago - so I haven't heard as much drumming technique nomenclature as someone who actually studied concert drumming would.

I can do it with match-grip, but I don't think I really understand your explanation of how to do it with traditional grip... not that I ever play traditional grip.

EDIT: while looking for a demonstration on youtube (haven't found yet) I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP5DfN0F ... re=related - triplet bounces at 240 bpm are pretty dang impressive to me.

[entropi]

Well it is also a kind of roll but you do it with one hand by pressing the top of the stick against the drum-head then use fingers to continue. Very difficult technique. It has a specific name which I don't remember now. At least that's what I understood from "roffle"

I've only heard that called a "double-tap" or "double-bounce" but I also played flute in high school band, guitar and bass guitar afterward, and only started learning drums a couple of years ago - so I haven't heard as much drumming technique nomenclature as someone who actually studied concert drumming would.

I can do it with match-grip, but I don't think I really understand your explanation of how to do it with traditional grip... not that I ever play traditional grip.

EDIT: while looking for a demonstration on youtube (haven't found yet) I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP5DfN0F ... re=related - triplet bounces at 240 bpm are pretty dang impressive to me.

No no no, that's not what I mean. That is amazingly difficult as well but what I mean is different. It is done by pressing the ... achachhh I think remember the name now, it was called press-roll.
Joe Porcaro (not Jeff Porcaro of Toto, but his father) used be a master of this technique.