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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #21 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:51 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . O , X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O 6 X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let me know if you disagree

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #22 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:57 am 
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@Observers
I think white's block was in the wrong direction.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . a . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems very over-concentrated for white and it's not even secure territory with aji at A. Whereas if he blocked in the other direction
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . @ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O , X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X X X . X B . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think he could play :wc: after :bc: because of the support of :ws:. I think this development is much better for white.

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #23 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:59 pm 
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@mw42:

I'm not sure that's the correct joseki in your second diagram - F2 instead of B3 seems better for black.

Edit: my comment wasn't entirely accurate - probably best to show the sequence I mean.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 4 . . . O . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 . . B . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edit 2: Or this one, but I think I prefer the above.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 2 O 4 . . . O . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 7 1 3 . 9 B . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #24 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:46 pm 
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@illluck
I agree that your joseki choice was better than mine, but how do you feel about the position even if white can't take sente to extend? I still find I prefer this over the actual game.

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #25 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:01 pm 
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I have to be honest, like a few people have suggested, I am also not particularly fond of Cloud's way of handling the counter pincer. Also, the secondary suggested move seems a little slack.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , 9 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . 8 X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If I was playing, I would prefer to play like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . W , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

By playing this way, black still has to try to work out how to deal with the marked white stone. It is quite difficult for black to launch an effective attack. In this sequence, white has also not fallen into the trap of showing black where he/she intends to make territory too early in the game. This means that white can be flexible and keep as many options open as possible.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #26 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:59 pm 
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@mw42:
I agree with your assessment - I meant to say that in my last post, but managed to forget :p


@youngjae:
My first comment (I think) has some other possibilities that I think are playable - I decided that I didn't like the kick because there's an attachment underneath the fourth line stone after, but I'm not sure.

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #27 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:42 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . O , X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O 6 X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move is super important. Just in terms of territory alone it's pretty clear how much value it holds. Additionally it helps remove a lot of the bad aji within this position. For example, let's say white plays tenuki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . 2 . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O 4 . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


All of a sudden white has a difficult fight on his hands.

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #28 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:54 pm 
Tengen
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for obs only:
this variation cloud is not to my liking.
2 and 3 exchange is NO NO.
first you dont get anything out of that exchange
second it will hure other side of black.
for sdks: if you want to be dan level..you will avoide this kind of aji-keshi and be able to see them in a flash.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . 2 . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O 4 . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #29 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:15 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . B , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't like allowing the sente followup, but a white approach here would be too painful.

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #30 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:35 am 
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Shaddy wrote:
This game is open: please mark hide tags that we are not supposed to look in. If a tag has no marking, we will be free to look inside of it.

Does that mean that you are also allowed to look into the hidden thoughts of your opponent?

_________________
Stay out of my territory! (W. White, aka Heisenberg)

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #31 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:42 am 
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That's how it worked in my last open game, and I've been going by that.

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #32 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:05 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

His move is very solid. Personally, I would have played Q10, but I can see the value in his move. I'm not sure exactly how I want to play on the left side yet, so I'm leaving it alone for now. For this move, white has a couple of options.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is my fear of playing on the left side. It's a huge move, but it's not really sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This pincer works very well with his bottom stones. I think this line is also playable, but I don't like this style.

I expect:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #33 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:11 am 
Lives in sente
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Posts: 1206
Liked others: 51
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Rank: KGS 5d
KGS: Str1fe, Midorisuke
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A trigger: change it if you disagree.

I was expecting an approach to my other 3-4- a far knight's approach or two-space approach. This move is a little too easy on me, I think: I can enclose my other corner and pressure white at my leisure. At this point, I feel good about the game- plenty of solid territory. I don't know if I want to approach the last corner or play the repairing move in the bottom left first..

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #34 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:28 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 64
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Was liked: 2
Rank: AGA 4D
GD Posts: 15
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The trigger sequence is clearly bad for white. White can't let black have both corners and only get small life on the side. My plan if he approached this direction was to extend all the way to the corner.

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #35 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:54 am 
Lives in sente
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Rank: KGS 5d
KGS: Str1fe, Midorisuke
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Fine. War it is.

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #36 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:43 pm 
Judan
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Kaya handle: Test
SpongeBob wrote:
Shaddy wrote:
This game is open: please mark hide tags that we are not supposed to look in. If a tag has no marking, we will be free to look inside of it.

Does that mean that you are also allowed to look into the hidden thoughts of your opponent?


Shaddy wrote:
That's how it worked in my last open game, and I've been going by that.


Then what is the purpose of hide tags by players? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #37 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:40 pm 
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KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
SpongeBob wrote:
Shaddy wrote:
This game is open: please mark hide tags that we are not supposed to look in. If a tag has no marking, we will be free to look inside of it.

Does that mean that you are also allowed to look into the hidden thoughts of your opponent?


Shaddy wrote:
That's how it worked in my last open game, and I've been going by that.


Then what is the purpose of hide tags by players? :roll:


To keep post size down.

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #38 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:40 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 64
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Was liked: 2
Rank: AGA 4D
GD Posts: 15
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 4 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Not much to say about this move... white needs to get into the center for the upcoming fight. Also, this stone is more important than R15 so white jumps here.

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #39 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:47 pm 
Lives with ko

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cloud wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 4 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Not much to say about this move... white needs to get into the center for the upcoming fight. Also, this stone is more important than R15 so white jumps here.

Can you explain why this stone is more important than R15? Or is it just a more urgent shape to jump from?

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 Post subject: Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)
Post #40 Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:09 pm 
Lives in sente
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Posts: 1206
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Was liked: 192
Rank: KGS 5d
KGS: Str1fe, Midorisuke
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Only move IMO. Most other ways end in this black stone being attacked, so I'm going to play this sente-ish move first. I expect white has to jump again, and then I can look at ways to pressure his lonely stone on the side

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