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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby - Running Low On Titles
Post #41 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:57 am 
Tengen
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@Jedo:

Yeah, I'm kind of in agreement with the previous two, though slightly less strongly:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O B B O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O . X 4 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Every single marked Black stone is now worse than a waste - they've served to make White stronger for no good purpose. If this is Black's intention, better to not start it all in the first place:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The reason I'm less critical as the others, is it may be that the cut is not going to achieve anything anyway, and that Black should never have pushed and cut in the first place. In which case, it is sometimes better to say "damn it, what a mess, cut my losses" than continue down a futile fight. If Black cannot succeed in attacking something with his cutting stones, cutting his losses is probably good.

However, I'm not sure White doesn't have something to be concerned about, as neither White group around the lower right (the two that have been cut in half) are fully settled yet. It's dead easy to settle either with sente, but not both at once. So I think Black should stick to his guns, keep White cut, and start fights, he's got plenty of stones around, and it would be nice to see F4 and J4 become useful :)

I see a sort of miai of "a" points at the moment:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . a . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O 2 X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This post by topazg was liked by: gaius
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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby - Running Low On Titles
Post #42 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:28 am 
Lives in gote
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This post by Jedo was liked by: daniel_the_smith
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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby - Running Low On Titles
Post #43 Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:14 pm 
Honinbo

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Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O 8 X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm very sorry for the late response, Magicwand. I've been having some late evenings at my job. Last night I was at work until 10:40pm.

I would venture to say that there is one move in this position, locally. The only other move I really feel like briefly considering is this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O X X 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . W . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But that is certainly not as good since it doesn't put any pressure on white's marked stone.

I cannot think of a better move. I'm assuming MW played this to prevent me from playing this move at some point:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O B O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby - Running Low On Titles
Post #44 Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:17 pm 
Honinbo

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Well, I take it back. When I look at the picture of the go board in my post, rather than just the ascii board, this position has its merits:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X W W . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O B B W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . W . B . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I still don't like it as much as it is not as pressuring on the white stone. But I do feel like I like the shape in the marked area, above.

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby - Running Low On Titles
Post #45 Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:16 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"

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Post #46 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:52 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 0 . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think that it is important for me to get my head out into the middle here. I do not think that he can kill the corner.

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Post #47 Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:30 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


if i get sente i will invade 3-3 and kill everything.

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Post #48 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:28 am 
Tengen
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Does anyone see magicwand's sequence? I'm drawing a blank :S

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . 4 3 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This obviously doesn't work

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X 2 3 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He playing for this?

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby - Running Low On Titles
Post #49 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:04 am 
Lives with ko

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topazg wrote:
Does anyone see magicwand's sequence? I'm drawing a blank :S

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . 4 3 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This obviously doesn't work

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X 2 3 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He playing for this?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After this doesn't he have miai to connect out to his stones or to live in the corner?

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Post #50 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:21 am 
Tengen
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Puppycakes wrote:
topazg wrote:
Does anyone see magicwand's sequence? I'm drawing a blank :S

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . 4 3 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This obviously doesn't work

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X 2 3 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He playing for this?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After this doesn't he have miai to connect out to his stones or to live in the corner?


Yeah, I wondered that - but he seems to be trying to kill, and I couldn't get a feel as to whether that kills everything. To me, Black can still live this way:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X 2 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X a X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . 5 6 1 0 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 4 3 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Obviously if White lives it's still going to be painful for Black (particularly that last one, which is horrible - I don't know if the sacrifice is necessary and whether or not Black can get away with :w10: at "a", but it's a clearly living line), but I was assuming there was a guaranteed kill sequence somewhere that I just can't read.

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Post #51 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:09 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, I'd better stick my head out here to be consistent.

I'm having a bit of personal stress these days, so I am a bit slower to respond. I should still be able to play periodically, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby - Running Low On Titles
Post #52 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:11 am 
Lives with ko

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@topazg:

The "kill everything" comment should not be taken literally - it means to make things very painful for black.

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This post by unkx80 was liked by: topazg
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Post #53 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:45 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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Post #54 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:26 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


To be completely honest, I do not know what to play here.

I think my last move produced an exchange that was better for white than black - but I'm usually nailed for being inconsistent... But it still feels like a bad move...

Is it better to play a bad move that is consistent, or to try to recover from your previous mistakes?

I don't know the answer. Maybe someone stronger knows...

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Post #55 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:27 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #56 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:30 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #57 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:33 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
dont expect to win a game sealed in as kirby.

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Post #58 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:37 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 8 . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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be immersed

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby - Running Low On Titles
Post #59 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:24 am 
Lives in sente
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Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Kirby wrote:
Is it better to play a bad move that is consistent, or to try to recover from your previous mistakes?

I don't know the answer. Maybe someone stronger knows...

I'm weaker than you are Kirby, but I think the idea is to play a consistent move that seeks to make your bad move good :). Or better a better way of phrasing, challenge the idea that your previous move was bad at all and try to dispute that with your plays on the board. Its not about the individual previous moves, its all about follow ups. How many times have you seen Magicwand play a move that he admits was overplay but yet he makes it work out to be the perfect move when all is said and done? He certainly wasn't fazed by the idea that his previous move was 'bad', he sought to give it 'merit' and get work out of it.


This post by Aphelion was liked by: Phelan
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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby - Running Low On Titles
Post #60 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:35 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

his corner is very small..as you can see from below.
i am trying to control his two stone in the middle...
what i want from him is to run. that will give me a flow..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm29
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O . X O O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X . O O X X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . X . . X , . O X X 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . 1 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 . 5 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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