Oso's Joseki Dictionary

[oso]

Hello, everyone. It's a pitiful excuse for a dictionary, but I've been working on it whenever I've been able to get a chance. Right now the sgf file is frightningly small, but I'll be updating it whenever I get the chance(Read: When I get off me bum )

Right now It has about 9 variations, and would be useful to probably weak kyu's. A Dan level player would probably laugh at the pathetic fail that is my dictionary. D:

Anyways, hopefully, it'll be useful to someone. I'll be posting revisions probably once a week, with about 9 new variations a week, hopefully, too.

Created with Cgoban, on a computer that is not mine.

Oso's Joseki Dictionary.sgf

Sorry, wrong file. Here's the correct one!

(5.81 KiB) Downloaded 797 times

[topazg]

Where do you get your source material?

[illluck]

It seems like it's original material mostly. I'd advice against using it as a resource, but it could be fun analysis material for positional and move evaluation.

[oso]

Yes, it's mostly my own analysis in my own spare time, so the quality of the dictionary probably reflects that! haha!

[daniel_the_smith]

I think the process of trying to work out joseki for yourself is probably very good for you.

However, as soon as you've done so I think you should make every effort to forget the final sequence you worked out. Some of the sequences in that file have large mistakes for one side or the other. (and it's nothing against you, I can't reliably work out what joseki should be, either)

[amnal]

oso: You might find it interesting to compare your variations with those at eidogo.com , which uses Kogos joseki dictionary. This is mostly based on a (now slightly outdated) joseki dictionary by Ishida, and is generally correct, though it does have errors and omissions of its own. I think that thinking of variations as you have done is a great idea, but that it would be even better to compare them to the real sequences that are played and try to understand the difference.

[tchan001]

Maybe you should consider renaming your work as "Oso's Opening Studies".

[hyperpape]

Yes, Oso's Joseki Dictionary has much the same implications as Oso's Classic Works of Literature.

[Tofu]

Although I disagree with some of what is in your SGF file, I think this is a pretty cool idea and I enjoyed looking through it. IMO, thinking about Go in this way can only help your game.

[emeraldemon]

Some thoughts about the first three, take with skepticism:

$$B Seems fine
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . 4 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Seems fine
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . 4 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

I think this one's probably fine.

$$B Oso 2
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . 4 .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Oso 2
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . 4 .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

I don't think you can play 4 or 5 without knowing what's in the nearby corners, 5 especially. For black I might play this way:

$$B Better for black?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , 6 . . . . 4 .
$$ | . . . 5 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Better for black?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , 6 . . . . 4 .
$$ | . . . 5 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

Then tennuki, and let white worry about patching up later, or how to deal with the split.

$$B Oso 3
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . . . , .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Oso 3
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . . . , .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

Black 5 definitely feels too loose to me, but it' a little hard to see how to deal with it. It's tempting to cut:

$$B Trying to refute
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 8 7 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 6 3 4 . . . , .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Trying to refute
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 8 7 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 6 3 4 . . . , .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

But I'm not sure how it will turn out...

$$B Complicated fight?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 4 O X X . . . . .
$$ | . . X O X O . . . , .
$$ | . . 2 1 O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Complicated fight?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 4 O X X . . . . .
$$ | . . X O X O . . . , .
$$ | . . 2 1 O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

[EdLee]

$$B Oso 3
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 5 . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Oso 3
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 5 . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------[/go]

SmartGo finds only one game with the above local pattern, from the year 1578 :

$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . a . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 8 0 4 2 X . .
$$ | . 9 X 1 X O 6 .
$$ | . . 5 3 O 7 . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . a . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 8 0 4 2 X . .
$$ | . 9 X 1 X O 6 .
$$ | . . 5 3 O 7 . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------[/go]

W has sente to play in (a) direction to reduce B.
Compare:

$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . 5 . . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . .
$$ | . . 7 6 2 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . 5 . . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . .
$$ | . . 7 6 2 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------[/go]

[tchan001]

$$B Oso 3
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 5 . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Oso 3
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 5 . .
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . .
$$ | . . . . 2 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------[/go]

http://senseis.xmp.net/?DaYaLiang

Da Ya Liang is a very old Chinese opening. I know it's from at least the Ming Dynasty cause there is a famous work on it for three-stone handicap games with 50 variations.

[EdLee]

Da Ya Liang is a very old Chinese opening.

Thanks, tchan001.

[emeraldemon]

Very interesting! So maybe this could fall into the category of trick-plays for white to try in handicap games?

[illluck]

@emerald: If I remember correctly, the book is aimed towards the weaker player, though I'd imagine white can try to play it too in handicap games with less than 4 stones. My impression was that there are quite a few tricky variations, so not sure if black really wants to use it as a handicap joseki.