Gang Malkovich 1: Magicwand vs the Gang of Five

[Joaz Banbeck]

This is Magicwand vs Topazg, Daniel_the_smith, Dusk Eagle, Kirby, and myself.

For an explanation of this, please see: http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =38&t=3463

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c
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GL and GG, Magicwand, it's your move.

[Magicwand]

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
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this should be intresting....

[topazg]

In a 2 stone game, I pick a 4-4 if my opponent does, purely so it doesn't give him the only "ideal approach" move. It's probably just personal preference. I'll go with the majority, but D16 appeals.

Should we divide the labour a bit to our strengths? So a couple of people spend a disproportionate time working out aji and L+D on magicwand's groups for example?

[Joaz Banbeck]

For our next move, D16 looks good to me too. But I'll go with whatever reasonable move you guys want to make - as long as it is in the open corner.

BTW, I'm assuming that this is egalitarian. I happen to have been the organizer, but after that, nobody is in charge.

[cdybeijing]

This will certainly be interesting, but I have the feeling it's going to take an eternity to finish.

[SpongeBob]

This will certainly be interesting, but I have the feeling it's going to take an eternity to finish.

I have the same concern and therefore hope that you can agree to some not-so-strict rules for cooperation. I would not have it as a prerequisite that everyone judges the situation before a move can be made. I would rather set some time limit, like three days, and within that time interval, a move will be made. If a player does not express his thoughts by then, the move will be made nevertheless.

However, it is your game and these are just my 2 cents from a viewer's perspective. Everything you decide on will be fine for me ... looking forward to the game and the discussions.

[Dusk Eagle]

Same move for me, too. Let's make all the corners equal, not giving him any unfinished-corner approaches.

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
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So I guess that makes a majority right there, so hopefully no one minds if I go and post this move:

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm2
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[daniel_the_smith]

That move is fine with me.

Can we just post our deliberations without hide tags, since it's unlikely we'll be saying things Magicwand doesn't know?

Should be a fun game, good luck to Magicwand.

I think he'll need it.

Two stones? I think all of us together are very likely to win at two stones. In my two stone game I had a decent shot of it. In Kirby's games vs. Magicwand I think most of us notice his mistakes as they happen (being an outside observer is worth 8 stones or something like that). In this sort of game, the primary benefit of the "gang" is that we can point out each other's errors (see, for example, Arimaa's "one vs the mob" series of games). At our level we still lose most games by making bad moves as opposed to missing brilliant moves. At least I do.

So, I propose that for more consequential moves we wait up to a day for a dissenting opinion to show up even if three people agree. If four agree, just make the move (someone may be tied up for a few days, that shouldn't halt the game). It's absolutely essential that we avoid every bad move we possibly can. I also propose that everyone should try to study the position before looking at the suggestions of the other "gang" members, as that may very well bias you or short-circuit your thought process, causing you to miss something you ordinarily wouldn't.

One technique to make the best group decisions possible is to thoroughly discuss the problem before proposing solutions (see: http://lesswrong.com/lw/ka/hold_off_on_ ... solutions/). We might be able to apply that in complex situations.

[Magicwand]

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
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i usually play knight approach but...
i think i need to create a situation where they dont agree.
something different and see how they disagree

[topazg]

Magicwand likes making complicated situations with fighting and aji. I see no reason to allow a double approach, so I'd keep things simple with O16.

[daniel_the_smith]

I always O16 in this position in handicap games, and I've had a 7d tell me it was correct. I don't like to play high twice on the same board, though, because white eventually gets sente and undercuts one of them.

[topazg]

I always O16 in this position in handicap games, and I've had a 7d tell me it was correct. I don't like to play high twice on the same board, though, because white eventually gets sente and undercuts one of them.

He's doing it too, so if necessary, we can play that game just as well as him

On that note, if he leaves it alone, we can also pincer it quite effectively too. It's up to us to rip sente out of his dead hands I think.

[daniel_the_smith]

I might be overcompensating for the fact that my high extensions seem to die a lot around strong players...

[jts]

I think it would defeat the point of joaz's research if you let magicwand read the comments. One of the questions under investigation is whether 5 low dans can come up with things that a high Dan can't see.

[Kirby]

We could consider a counter-approach at O3; I suspect MW will approach the bottom left next. Despite that, I also like O16 better at the moment, because it seems bigger.