105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:13 am

Indeed. In fact, Choi Cheolhan played it just the other day (move 61)

emerus · Post by **emerus** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:41 pm

emeraldemon wrote:
So, while [P4 is] unusual in modern games
I just want to mention that somehow the diagonal has gotten a reputation as an "old move" among amateurs (probably Hikaru no Go?), but it isn't actually. I used GoGoD to search games from 1990 to the present, and found it was the second most popular move:

$$B Most common responses, 1990-2011
$$ ------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . W . . . c
$$ | . . X , . . . a .
$$ | . . . b . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Most common responses, 1990-2011 $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . W . . . c $$ | . . X , . . . a . $$ | . . . b . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
a - 2090 games
b - 1860 games
c - 1109 games
plus a bunch of other stuff.

Yeah I was worried that might have been misunderstood. I was referring to the position on the bottom of the board where the 2 space high or the more aggressive 1 space high pincer is the fashion.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:51 pm

emerus wrote:Yeah I was worried that might have been misunderstood. I was referring to the position on the bottom of the board where the 2 space high or the more aggressive 1 space high pincer is the fashion.

I thought this was a closed comments game?

emerus · Post by **emerus** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:58 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X 0 . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

emerus · Post by **emerus** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:59 pm

EdLee wrote:
emerus wrote:Yeah I was worried that might have been misunderstood. I was referring to the position on the bottom of the board where the 2 space high or the more aggressive 1 space high pincer is the fashion.
I thought this was a closed comments game?

Oh woops. No, I just misquoted the wrong post. Didn't even realize or read it, though I guess I saw it.

Sorry fellas....

@emerus
Just so that you don't feel left out with all the hidden comments directed at me

@mnemonic

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:14 pm

emerus:

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:45 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't like this move. It looks odd and I don't think it is joseki (although I'm hardly an expert on that) The problem is, most of my moves result in an shapeless, eyeless, floating group for black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Most Ideas still revolve around (a) and (b) with maybe a kikashi first around the shaded area $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b . . ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O ? . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . a . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 looks ok, but I'm more woried about the crosscut $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . 2 1 3 . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 9 7 . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 8 O 3 X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . 4 1 2 6 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 0 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Can't really say I like this variation, but it's probably the best I can come up with $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 5 X O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . X 4 . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . 6 7 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 The problem with any plays here is that white can ignore them. And now? $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 better shape? $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . 3 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Conclusion:

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:36 am

Hidden until the corner is resolved, then for Mnemonic

You don't like the following?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 9 7 . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . 8 O 3 X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . 4 1 2 6 . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 0 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Continuation perhaps:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 About the best I can come up with. I get a wall in sente but W conects with big corner $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O X X 3 5 7 . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . O X O O 1 O 6 8 . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That's not that great a corner, and what thickness you have - and in sente! I'd take it, anyway

emerus · Post by **emerus** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:52 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

obs:

yoyoma · Post by **yoyoma** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:03 pm

emerus:

emerus · Post by **emerus** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:07 pm

yoyoma wrote:emerus:
You posted that Black's joseki move is G6. But when Black didn't do that, why didn't you consider any variations for white adding a move in that area.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:10 pm

Mnemonic:

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:34 am

emerus,

hman · Post by **hman** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:50 am

Shaddy wrote:emerus,
I prefer diagrams. It's difficult to make sure I see all the variations in an sgf, and the possibility of missing one is annoying.

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:46 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Re:

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)

Re: 105: emerus (3k) vs Mnemonic (8k)