102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

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Shaddy
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by Shaddy »

I'm just being lazy. I'll do it from now on
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by cloud »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm57 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Time to make life
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Shaddy
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by Shaddy »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm58 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I really didn't want to play this 1, but I didn't see another way.
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by cloud »

Sorry I was camping this weekend with no internet.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I considered this, but I think it's overplay:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm59 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by Shaddy »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm62 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I um, kind of forgot about this game. Sorry!
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by cloud »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm62 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 2 . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

To SDK and lower dan players: I hope a move like this comes to your mind immediately when you see this type of position. I think a lot of players in situations like this tend to over-think the position, but when there is a move this obvious it is usually right. There is really no need to read here either- this move is great shape, helps the more important white stones, and puts pressure on the black group in the center. You might look at L10 or some other type of extension as basically doing the same thing, but the reason that a move like this is so important is that there is no bad aji.
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by Puppycakes »

I would think of that move if there wasn't already a stone at m12. Meaning that I could possibly take M12 if black didn't respond. Now black gets to peep at n9 and white ends up with inefficient shape. I probably would have played something like n9 to make a table shape myself.
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by topazg »

@Puppycakes

Me too :)
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by Shaddy »

I like the game move more than the table shape, because with a table shape black can make an attacking peep at the one-space jump。 The peep I'm allowed here does not really have attacking meaning to it.
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by cloud »

The table shape is better for defense, but it puts no pressure on black. White needs to attack here instead of just defending passively, especially in an area where black is already very strong (the lower right corner).
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by Shaddy »

All:
Hmm, the thing I would like to do most right now would be to swallow the three white stones. Black's position would be perfectly thick, and the game would be over.. unfortunately I can't find a way to kill them. More thinking..
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by Magicwand »

for obs only:
cloud wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm62 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 2 . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

To SDK and lower dan players: I hope a move like this comes to your mind immediately when you see this type of position. I think a lot of players in situations like this tend to over-think the position, but when there is a move this obvious it is usually right. There is really no need to read here either- this move is great shape, helps the more important white stones, and puts pressure on the black group in the center. You might look at L10 or some other type of extension as basically doing the same thing, but the reason that a move like this is so important is that there is no bad aji.


seriously?
white's last move looks UGLY!
black is spliting two white group which means one will die...
and i see that he is planning to save both group..very kyuish thought.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by cloud »

All:
I am not at all worried about the three white stones dying. Black's center group is just as weak as mine and I control the whole left side of the board.
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by unkx80 »

Observers only:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm62 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a O . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , a 2 . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The shape of W63 makes me cringe. Locally, any of the a points is better shape, but some reading is required.
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Re: 102. Shaddy (3d?) vs. cloud (3d)

Post by Magicwand »

unkx80 wrote:Observers only:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm62 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a O . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , a 2 . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The shape of W63 makes me cringe. Locally, any of the a points is better shape, but some reading is required.

i agree with any 'a' being better.
i did some reading with other 'a's and white's shape is already bad and can not find any good result.

i think below is the best result for white but still look bad for white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm62 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . X O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 4 , 2 . . . O , O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , X . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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