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Offline fwiffo
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #81 Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:58 am 
Gosei
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I'm going way, way beyond my depth, but does this work after white L2 (assuming black can't escape or make an eye in the J5 area)?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ . O X . , X O X 0 . O . . . |
$$ O . O . 7 5 6 X O . X O . . |
$$ . O O 3 2 1 4 . X X . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 8 . 9 . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ . O X . , X . X X a O . . . |
$$ O . O . O O X X O 1 X O . . |
$$ . O O O X O X . X X 2 O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X . O b . . . |
$$ ----------------------------[/go]

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #82 Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 11:49 am 
Tengen
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I don't get it, Black just looks alive :-?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . 3 . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . 5 2 4 . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or 4 at 5 and 5 at 4
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #83 Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:54 pm 
Gosei
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Black looks ok to me, too. Pretty sure that white will not play 3 in fwiffo's diagram, though.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #84 Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:07 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline zinger
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #85 Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:19 pm 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a . . O B B O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have to be careful here. I think white is trying to get some safety for his right side group, which will weaken my group there. Then he can play a or similar, which I will have to answer by living with my bottom group, and he can attack my right side group strongly.

On the other hand, if I just connect on the second line, I have made a nice yose gain, since white loses the chance to capture and I gain the first line hane in sente.

I think if I connect, my right side group is not in terrible trouble yet. He will probably add another move there, then I can hop into the center again. He might be able to set up the cut at b, but in a pinch I can discard the marked stones, which costs less than he is giving me on the edge anyway. So I do it.

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Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #86 Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 2:13 pm 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , W . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

what i played is very urgent for both black and white. i made the game very complicated but..not complicated enough.
but i think black is rattled by my complicated attack which is good. i assume he will make mistake and one mistake is all i need to win. i am not too far behind.

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Offline zinger
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #87 Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 9:59 am 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


OK, he took the shared eyespace on the right, but in gote. So I move out into the center.

I have to be careful to stay away from the bottom. Any move he makes in the K7 area might be enough to set up a kill of my bottom group. For example if I jump to K9, his peep at L8 could make a difference.

Eventually I will probably have to play K2 in gote to live. That won't feel good, but it is worth several points, so not a total loss.

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Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #88 Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:53 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
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Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Offline zinger
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #89 Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:51 am 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . 1 . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I will try to break through, to keep pressure on his right side group. His last two moves there didn't help him all that much, I can still play S11 and connect above or below. The best defense to my own weaknesses is to make sure he has one too.

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Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #90 Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:53 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , W X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"
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Offline zinger
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #91 Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:17 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 305
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Nothing new to say here ..

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Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #92 Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 4:44 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Offline zinger
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #93 Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 6:12 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X 1 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


even a moron connects a peep

_________________
Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #94 Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 6:25 pm 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . W O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i was afraid of retaliation but i guess not..

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Offline fwiffo
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #95 Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 6:29 pm 
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As black, I'd want to eat that dumpling, but I would fail.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #96 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 2:06 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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KGS: magicwand
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points are pretty close but i am thin in the middle.
i am thinking it is safe because of its flexable shape.
if i am wrong i can be in big trouble.

below is one example of its flexablity.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . W O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . 6 2 3 O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X 1 . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Offline zinger
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #97 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:01 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Wow, what an amaazingly complex game, just what I wanted! I could easily post 20 diagrams just on my tsumego reading on the bottom side. Then there is the delicate situation on the right, and now a decision about defending the upper right corner, or moving out.

I considered three main alternatives now: a, b, c.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . b O a O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . c . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Some thoughts on each:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c seems possible but ..
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X 3 X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |[/go]

My problem with this is, white has repaired the cut, and black has neither played a move on the outside, nor defended the corner. So it seems to help white, in a way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c not bad but ..
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 1 O 3 O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |[/go]

I don't think it would go this way. Instead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c not so great
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 3 1 O 2 O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . 4 O X 6 X X X . a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X 7 8 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |[/go]

In this line, having to defend at 9 is a nuissance. White gets 10, with a as an annoying follow-up.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c better?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . c O 4 O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X 2 X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . 5 O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . b O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |[/go]

This move defends the previous diagram in advance, and threatens the cut for real. If white repairs this way, 5 increases the pressure on the right side group, and white doesn't have time to slide to a. Black could also play 5 at b, and the cut c is still active as well.

Or white might defend a different way:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c still ok
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . a O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . b . |[/go]

… and black can play a, or maybe this is the time to drop in at b.

_________________
Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #98 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:08 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
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DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X W . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #99 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:32 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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KGS: magicwand
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Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
drawing some random thoughts in my head...
i will pick variations after he makes his move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . 7 3 4 , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X 5 X 1 6 . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . . 3 . , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X 4 X 1 . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . 5 3 2 7 O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X 9 X 1 . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 33. Magicwand v. zinger
Post #100 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:36 am 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
I'm surprised magicwand doesn't expect this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X . 8 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , X . 4 3 2 7 O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X 1 6 . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . O . O O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X X O O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O X . , X O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . O . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . . . . . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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