109. Loons vs. Kirby

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:30 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . 1 O O X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I marked my second-to-last post unhidden. It's no longer relevant at all (after a little ninja edit!) and might be passingly interesting. It shows common ending variations of this joseki.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:40 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . 2 O O O X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I feel like this is too passive:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . O O O X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . B X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What do you guys think?

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:41 pm

Interesting... And nice to know that I've deviated from joseki! :tmbup:

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:39 pm

Your extension was officially "an idea", but not the common one.

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:36 pm

After bottom right is settled

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:44 pm

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:10 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . 3 . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . X O O O X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:39 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . X O O O X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . 4 . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move leaves some aji in my shape, but I like it because I can play at 'a' next if he doesn't:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . a O . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . X O O O X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . X . X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Furthermore, if he plays at 'a' next, there is some aji in his shape, too.

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:41 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , 5 X O O O X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . X 6 X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Settled enough, Shaddy ?

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:31 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . X . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . 8 5 X O O O X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . . X 6 X O X X O . O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:16 pm

90% sure I'm going to connect. However, taking inspiration from Kirby, I'm going to force myself to take a day to think about the board.

*Kikashi - that free atari was kikashi.

Edit; unhidden. (Very likely connecting an atari is not exactly a special strategy).

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:55 pm

Yeah, you guys can look at my hidden now.

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:37 pm

Hm, I don't know what to say. I believe this to be fairly established joseki - my reference is an informally compiled SGF of some joseki I know. Heh. Really though, it's totes legit.

As I have it recorded, the joseki;

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +--------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . $$ | . . 0 1 5 8 7 . . . $$ | . . . a 4 6 b . . , $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ +--------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . 8 6 . 7 X . . . . $$ | 0 5 O X X O X . . . $$ | . 4 3 1 O O . . . , $$ | . 9 O 2 . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Exchange is even, tilted a little in black's favour (very thick) $$ +--------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O O . X X . . . . $$ | O . O X X O X . . . $$ | . O X X O O 3 . . , $$ | . X O O 1 4 . . . . $$ | . . 6 . 5 . 7 . . . $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

In practice many equivalent moves are interchangable.
Our move order allowed for me to make the following variation, if I wanted;

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 2 O O . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Edit: Hm, just repeating myself isn't really a compelling argument. I'll search for a pro game with it. Hmm, my rather meagre database never turns this up exactly, but some slight variations. Anyone with one of those big databases get a good hit?

A more useful edit: Where exactly does white cut on the second line? What is unjoseki-y? You mean the game result is too good for black ?

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:16 am

Loons, Shaddy, Kirby,

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:41 am

EdLee wrote:Loons, Shaddy, Kirby,
Loons wrote:Anyone with one of those big databases get a good hit?
The lower right corner up to happened in at least 10 pro games, but nobi got zero match out of 50,744 games.

Awesome... Deviation ftw!

Life In 19x19

109. Loons vs. Kirby

Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

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Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby

Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby