Big Brother Malkovich #2

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Aphelion
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by Aphelion »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=7 - 3 , W=3 - 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . B . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I normally don't like this approach, but I didn't like the tight pincer from white if I play the normal low move. I think this high approach will control White's moyo a little better, and gives me a better chance of linking to F10. If that happens it would make the E11 cut very threatening for white. Originally, I was about to cut immediately, but I realized I didn't have a clear plan for that fight and I wasn't sure if it would benefit me. So I'm hoping to build a solid position here first before deciding what to do with it.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

I approve.
That is a huge move. It is time to invade. Maybe past time. If I were Daniel, I would have seriously considered changing white's previous move like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O C . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . W . . . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Um...Phelan...you there??
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by Phelan »

Sorry for the delay.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=7 - 4 , W=3 - 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . W . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have no idea what to play here. I wanted to split and attack the two stones, but I see no good way to do it.
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daniel_the_smith
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Approved.
Let's go down in flames if we go down at all.
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by Aphelion »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=7 - 4 , W=3 - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have no prospect of attacking that stone, so lets lean on it to gain some strength. Jumping out is bad I think because it will be purely a situation where I am running for life. I have a lot of ideas that I will show when I return from work, but they mostly revolve around the possibility of me getting D6
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by Aphelion »

Some thoughts:
My first instinct was to jump here, but you can see this way I am left with simply two floating stones with no prospect of living locally and no ability to pressure any white stones. White may be stronger locally, but I refuse to just take a beating unilaterally. If I have to fight for life, I will make White sweat a bit too.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Since the pincer stone is already strong, I don't have any hope of jumping out and aiming to counter attack it. So I will attach on it and try to make him over concentrated. After that I can double approach. White can cut off my original stone and make 4th line territory on bottom, but I will have sente and a solid position in the center, aiming at the 'a' cut. Considering my point lead and White's moyo previously, this is a success. White still has to deal with the vexation of the open skirt.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . 9 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 8 3 1 2 . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 0 O 4 , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Some other ways White can resist:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Doesn't seem to end well for White
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 4 . X X O . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 7 O 5 X . O O , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 There's this, but I will read it out when the time comes...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 1 2 . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O 5 7 . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 8 . 6 9 . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Sorry about the delay. I had joined a gang...

I disapprove.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 4 , W=3 - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . C . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White has made the most aggressive play against our F4 stone, so I see no reason to commit to it. Let it be a light stone, maybe used to facilitate an invasion of the corner.
The other effect of white's play is the beginning of a central moyo. We have a growing chunk of terrirory on the right side, so this play is the intersection between two moyos.


Record-keeping question: Before my move, we had "7-4" I changed it to "6-4". Should the 4 reset to 0?
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Aphelion
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by Aphelion »

Joaz, the 7-4 should be changed to 6-0.
I dont' know whats going on anymore...
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by Redundant »

Most of Joaz's corrections in this game seem to solely aim at being inconsistent with the previous move played. If you're going to invade, invade. Don't start with an invasion, then move to a reduction.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by jts »

Redundant wrote:
Most of Joaz's corrections in this game seem to solely aim at being inconsistent with the previous move played. If you're going to invade, invade. Don't start with an invasion, then move to a reduction.

there's a fine line between inconsistent and light play, no? (I understand this comment if it's narrowly a critique of a big brother strategy, though.)
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by Shaddy »

jts wrote:
Redundant wrote:
Most of Joaz's corrections in this game seem to solely aim at being inconsistent with the previous move played. If you're going to invade, invade. Don't start with an invasion, then move to a reduction.

there's a fine line between inconsistent and light play, no? (I understand this comment if it's narrowly a critique of a big brother strategy, though.)

The problem is that the stone is not very light, so this is inconsistent. A stone is light if it has forced one's opponent to make an exchange which is not beneficial for him, and I'm sure white wanted to solidify the side. That said, I like neither aph's move nor joaz's correction (the correction is better than aph's move, though). I think f4 was simply a wrong move (perhaps it should have been at joaz's move here, and then black can treat m2 and the 3-3 invasion as miai), and now that it's on the board black has to d3 and then make a small life on the side.

edit. i'm stupid, m2 and the 3-3 invasion are both pretty much sente, so black can have his cake and eat it twice.
Last edited by Shaddy on Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Yes, that move needed to change. But... there? I wish Joaz changed more moves! :twisted:
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by Phelan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm62 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 0 , W=3 - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Trying to keep the moyo going. Hopefully I'll still be able to play between those two black stones.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Approve.
I want to punish that tenuki but I'm not sure it's worth a correction.
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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