114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

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Violence
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by Violence »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hopefully I can profit here by making miai of the right and the corner.
Last edited by Violence on Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Violence, NeoNemesis, good game. :)

Starting from Post #13, the first line of "$$" immediately after the [ go ] tag was deleted,
so the top of the board was missing and the line of hyphens "--------" became comments at the bottom of the diagram.
Last edited by EdLee on Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Solomon
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by Solomon »

T: So what do you think of the situation so far Artosis?
A: Mm...it's hard to say Tasteless, but I think it's still pretty even despite the early aggression at the 5 o'clock natural by NeoNemesis. Looking at the Units Lost tab, both sides haven't lost any units just yet. I'm really interested in seeing how this unusual BO from NeoNemesis plays out and how Violence will respond.
T: Is this the first time you've seen this BO from NeoNemesis?
A: Well...[pause]...it's odd but I think I've seen it before, way back from IM.TakemiyA a few decades ago.
T: That guy had insane map control.
A: Yeah, sick player from the IM house, ran into him on the ladder a few times.
T: But aren't you still in...
A: [interrupts] Anyways, it's not a bad build because even if he loses the proxy at the center, if he can get expansions up at the 11 o'clock and the 8 o'clock naturals it's still anyone's game. The question is whether Violence can micro his units well enough to hold this flank coming from NeoNemesis and come out ahead.
T: Well said Artosis. To those of you who just tuning in, you're watching the first match between NeoNemesis and Artosis, sponsored by Sony Erickson and Coca Cola [shifts the Coca Cola bottle 15 degrees to fully show the logo on camera].
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NeoNemesis
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by NeoNemesis »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I really want to tenuki, but I dont want him to attack my 3 stones. My corner is alive because he decided to hane so my descend down is sente. I wanted to attack the top right stone so I'll do that when I get the chance. Later when my side group gets strong I can possibly try to attack his lower right group although it's fairly thick at the moment.
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Magicwand
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by Magicwand »

for obs only: (it really doesnt matter if they read my hidden at their level)
let me guess...i think it is no brainer for black.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


although NeoNemesis is a stronger player..black is ahead in my opinion.
all comes down to conflicting move white played.
influence and play 3-3 ???
it may work if this an handycap game but not at our level.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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jts
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by jts »

What's a july zerg?
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Aphelion
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by Aphelion »

This is July:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lM4qlbTos8

This is also July:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsYcDNiJ4ic
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jts
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by jts »

:-? That's mean...
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Violence
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by Violence »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've been debating between this move and checking the group... but I think this is better... I feel that if I check the group, whatever stone I leave behind will just get attacked later on. Because he has Tengen, I think I want to grab potential in another corner first.
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NeoNemesis
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by NeoNemesis »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . W . . . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm going to try to kill that thickness. Point of this game is to kill everything. This is like trying to kill an ultralisk with banelings, but I will do it.
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Violence
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by Violence »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . B . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think if I were playing over the board, I would instinctively play the other side, but NeoNemesis usually manages to kill things like my "strong" group in the lower right. I think I'll let him have a position here, my goal is to just try and make tengen less effective.
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emerus
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by emerus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O B |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O a |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Isn't this move a mistake? Allowing W easy life because of a forcing move at A? What does B gain in return?
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NeoNemesis
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by NeoNemesis »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Seems too hard to attack the thick group. idea here is either to reinforce that stone or to take corner. It was between this move and 1 space below. I like this one more because if I take corner, he'll have to spend another move to capture the stone and it still has some aji. Otherwise, I can reforce it even better depending on which way he hanes
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X 4 . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . 3 1 2 . . . O . B . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At this point, black doesn't seem like he'd be in the mood to spend another move, maybe either jump out with the 3 stones or something.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . 4 X 5 . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . 2 1 3 . . . O . B . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can reinforce my stone stronger this way compared with:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . 6 X . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . 2 5 . . 7 . O . B . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . 4 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

black extension at E4 would be painful later i feel because there's aji at H4 ish, maybe gaining thickness in sente
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Violence
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by Violence »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . O B . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Another NeoNemesis-y move... I think I'll try to pressure the lone stone, he'll take more territory, I think I have to be mindful about the influence territory balance now.

Hopefully, I can get something out of this attack.
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Kirby
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Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Post by Kirby »

@Violence:
Can you elaborate on this choice of direction:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . B . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

?

The group is secure, but it feels slightly over-concentrated to me.
be immersed
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