Just jumpimg on the thread to thank daniel_the_smith for the amazing work on dailyjoseki.
I just love it, it makes me want to try things i would not have considered.
And yes,shading the area for next play would be great instead of a vague sentence.
Also a visual indication on who is to move , i keep forgetting to read the sentence on the bottom and when a side play twice because the other tenukis i feel stupid..
i guess a big colored stone should jump more to the eye

_________________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Suppose I start with my favorite, the 3-4 high approach, low pincer. There are many moves possible there--too many to have any idea. But here are three ways the tutor might handle it:

1) Work through them in order. Pick any reasonable move in the global context (where reasonable == moves that pros play) , play through the joseki, then return to the start and pick a new move. This won't work with moves that have a high branching factor, but I'm not sure the current approach works well there either.

2) The tutor could reject moves it wasn't looking for, without penalizing you. It could effectively say "that's a fine move, but not what I'm looking for."

3) A fusion of the first two: it could make you try and find all the reasonable next moves, then place the one it wants you to study on the board, then repeat.

None of these seem perfect, but I found the arbitrary choice of next move problem to be really hard to get past.

_________________
Occupy Babel!

I just had this position occur while studying and it finished the sequence too early and I wasn't able to advance it any further along. Since I can't link to that position here's a picture of the sequence:


My username is the same if that helps.

Edit: After trying to adjust this position and going back to the study view it asked me how hard it was to remember and this was the first time I'd studied that sequence.

Also, I noticed I can't browse joseki in two separate tabs; not a huge deal but it's nice to have.

Thanks, I'm glad you like it! I do the same thing, I agree, I should have a colored stone instead of the word "black" or "white".



Oh man I just thought of the perfect way to handle this. With my current data, I can have it stop penalizing you for moves that other pros made in the local position. That's cool, but will be too generous later on, when the whole point is to pick the variation that's correct for the whole board. But! With my next set of data, I can not penalize you as long as your move matches a full- or half-board position... ("That's a fine move, but in this game the pro did something different.") Thanks!





Hm, you can see from the 7/7 that it only found 7 moves to put in the test at all. I'm not sure why I'm generating test positions with only 7 moves. If you use the "remove test" option, it'll automatically give you a replacement. Also I can run a query to see which tests people reject with the reason "this test sucks"-- I think I wrote that, I'll double check later tonight.



I should probably word that "how easy will that be to recall?" the first time you see a test. ^^ (the reason you may not have noticed before is this may be the first time you passed a test the very first time you saw it!)



Yeah, I store state for that server side, not a great design! It was the first part of the site I wrote, eventually I will fix it.

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

Ah yes, that would be it.

Recently I've noticed some weird lag, for example move attempts showing up in different orders. Are you using ajax queries for each move? If so, can't you just load the whole sequence client side?

Gah, I've been waiting for someone to call me on that, you get the prize. You guys are finding everything now.

The best solution is to make the client smarter. Well, I have a temporary solution in mind that will not require writing a bunch of js. Also, my agreement with GoGoD includes me not giving out their games-- currently, if you look at how I do things, you'll see that it would not be possible to hack even a significant portion of a game, which is a property I need to keep.

Hm, actually I just thought of a solution that does everything I need (including not requiring me to implement the rules of go in js). Sigh, something else for the list... Did I mention there's just one of me and I have a day job?

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

That makes sense not giving out the game. I'm not sure what your idea was but I'd think you could just store board states in an array where each index is similar to the return from each successive ajax query on a correct move; all you should need is the correct move and a list of stones to add.

How does it determine which test to give you next? Sometimes I've had the same sequence twice in a row. How is the EF adjusted each time? Does it take into account how long it's been since it's shown you that position?

Keep up the good work, I'm looking forward to your improvements

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 1 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 4 5 2 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Wow, W11 looks so strange; I've never seen it before. Neither eidogo nor josekipedia has it listed.

That is a weird one. Without checking, my guess is that this shows why automatically getting moves is better than hand-entering them. Perhaps it is from old games or something? It found 30 examples, so it's actually not that rare... Looks like a good move to confuse people with!

Protip: registered users can click the "embed a link" button from the browse page to get one of these:



I'll try and answer your other post later

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

Moyo Go's database shows dozens of results from the 70's through 2008, almost all of them are played with a white stone along the left side but I was surprised to see this game with nothing else in the top left.

I like that one - used to play it sometimes. I've heard it called a "Kitani variation" of the taisha, though I have no idea if Kitani actually invented it, or just liked to play it (or even whether he actually played it at all, come to think of it...)

It's simple and solid for both sides. It feels a little submissive though (note white will eventually need an extra move to catch the two black stones) so I don't play it much anymore.

Another request, Joaz - not giving out the SGF files makes sense, but could you tell us the names of the players and the year? For some problems with multiple "correct" sequences following it would help figure out which variation we're looking for (check out 4-4, low approach, two-space low pincer... once I guess whether black's next move is the 3-3, a low change of direction, or a high change of direction, it basically tells me which decade the game is from) but also I keep seeing one game (from a 3-4, two-space low approach variation) and I REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT IS!! The whole-board picture at the end of the puzzle is so interesting, I just want to see the whole game.

Haha, yeah I'm allowed to display that (I've asked previously), I just currently don't. I should add it to the side with the hints.

I've even thought about allowing a spot in settings for you to type in the location of GoGoD on your computer (if you own it and have copied it somewhere), and providing a link to the file on your own hard-drive, just for your convenience.

OK, now it's time for me to be a hermit for a bit and actually do some of this stuff. I've got some of it done, but am not ready to publish it yet.

Oh, and on a side note: Last time I checked, I'm not Joaz.

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

Ack! Sorry, I'd just responded to him in another thread and his name came easily to the fingers. Sorry!

(soon as I read your post I had a mental image of "and don't call me Shirley!")

Alright, since this thread is the popular one nowadays, I'll put this here:

Site updated.

I think the message is a lot better now, I made it both more vague and more specific. Also, graphic stones. One wasn't enough to register subconsciously for me (tenuki still surprised me!) so I put a few. Plus some behind the scenes stuff. I may be able to do some more stuff tonight but other than that my week is pretty booked, so don't expect another update this week unless I broke something.

@ethanb: hehe



Short answer: I read lots of stuff while making the study algorithm, but it follows the below reasonably closely:

* http://www.supermemo.com/english/ol/sm2.htm
* http://ichi2.net/anki/wiki/FrequentlyAs ... Ankiuse.3F

That should give you the gist of things. The last question is a definite "yes", the other two would have very long answers and I have to go to work.

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

Ok thanks, no need to go in to lots of detail.

A couple ideas here, in your queue the last and next test date seem a little too specific it'd probably be fine if you just simplified it to something like "today, yesterday, 5 days, etc..."; also what's the -0000 supposed to be, is that time zone offset? It'd be nice to be able to sort the queue too; for example, to sort by EF to identify josekis you've mastered. Being able to click on the joseki to study or view it would be nice. Being able to see a history of tests would be nice too; although that's probably a lot of work for something that isn't necessary (not trying to bury you in work here )

Are the upcoming study items added in at a rate of X per day based on your settings or how does that work? Is there a limit to your queue size?

I agree, and actually "Improve timezone handling" is already on my list. -0000 means it's in UTC.



Clicking on the thumbnail should definitely do something, I agree. The other stuff will be... lower on my list.



Initially, it sets it up to dole out one from each group every other day. If you get behind, it will dole them out no faster than one per group per day. The setting I just added should allow you to limit that to something a little more reasonable. It defaults to 7, so unless you change it, it won't give you more than 7 new tests per day.

Oh, as we speak, my home computer is building a version of my db which includes sgf properties. So, for the next update, I expect to add a "hint 3" which will state the players & date.

In other news:

As of sometime yesterday, dailyjoseki.com has administered more than 1,000 tests! Many thanks to everyone who has registered and tried it out, and especially to those of you who've upgraded!

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

Site updated.



Wish granted ("Hint 3"). Also, Hint 1 actually is useful now. And you can click a second time to hide a hint.




I plan to do pretty much this, but I'm going to leave it how it is for the moment because it will be much easier once I write some behind the scenes stuff.

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

I just had a very strange test:
The joseki + followup was played out until a ko popped up. Then every ko threat was of course treated as a non-local move, so ko threat and response were automatically played, and I just had to re-capture the ko again and again, in total 17 times

My username is flOvermind, and it's currently the top item on my queue.
Next test date: May 13, 2011 23:47:14 -0000 (which in itself is strange)
Last test date: never (??)
Attempts: 0 (I'm sure I had this position at least three times.)
Group: 4

The position:

In the browser, you can only browse it until move 25, which would imho be a reasonable cutoff point for the test as well. The test goes on a lot longer, including the ko sequence...

I'm not sure myself what should be done about that. Perhaps a ko detector, to cut off the problem after the first ko capture? Or perhaps skip the ko until it is won or lost?

EDIT: In case it matters: The test turned up after I selected moves 1-3, because I wanted to study applications of and alternatives to the attach-and-extend joseki.

I suppose that is a logical consequence of what I told it to do . I'll have to make it detect that situation and do something that makes more sense. For now, I recommend either shortening the test (with the adjust button) or removing it. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

...

Also-- my server experienced an... unexpected... shutdown last night. It may have lost some small amount of progress for people that used it immediately before it shut down. I've since fixed the problem and restarted it. Sorry, everyone.

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

Another small problem:
sometimes some move that are obviously part of the joseki are auto played.
typically this is when a move is not in direct contact with the joseki (but sometime it is close ie a knight move from last stone and on the median line of the board
no specific example sorry i'll try to find one if needed

_________________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.