Koroviev wrote:... Both are correct in British English now, but (depending on word origin) -ize endings were once the standard in British English. This has gradually changed, and people have come to believe it's an American innovation. Grammar snobs occasionally jump on it as some kind of vulgar Americanism, when in fact it's not. ...
Interesting. I'm surprised to hear that "-ize" endings were once the standard in British English, and it has gradually changed because people believe it's an "American innovation", and not the other way around.
That's because, most of the time when I spell these types of words, I use "-ize", and thought that "-ise" was more common in British English. Even in this case, I used "capitalize", for example.
Kirby wrote:People also argue about whether Go/go should be capitalized.
Pardon my ignorance about the English language, but why should it be? Is chess, bridge, etc? I would have never thought of writing "Go" instead of "go", but then again my mother tongue is Finnish (and in Finnish it is written in lowercase).
One reason to capitalize Go which is peculiar to English is that "go" is one of the most common English verbs, as in "to go to France" or "to go fishing." So calling the board game Go rather than go is a good way to convey what you mean. (In the final analysis, though, I have to agree with John... capitals are dying out.)
Kirby wrote:People also argue about whether Go/go should be capitalized.
Pardon my ignorance about the English language, but why should it be? Is chess, bridge, etc? I would have never thought of writing "Go" instead of "go", but then again my mother tongue is Finnish (and in Finnish it is written in lowercase).
One reason to capitalize Go which is peculiar to English is that "go" is one of the most common English verbs, as in "to go to France" or "to go fishing." So calling the board game Go rather than go is a good way to convey what you mean. (In the final analysis, though, I have to agree with John... capitals are dying out.)
I would think that the noun meaning the game of go and the verb meaning movement from one place to another are easily distinguishable by context. (and if not, one can always clarify by using "game of go" or some other construct like that)
tj86430 wrote:I would think that the noun meaning the game of go and the verb meaning movement from one place to another are easily distinguishable by context. (and if not, one can always clarify by using "game of go" or some other construct like that)
The name go is a bit of a bummer on search engines etc though.
Unfortunately it's too late to change the established name for the game, and probably also too late to stop using the word "goban". (Witness how this thread is in a forum called "Gobans and other equipment".)
Famous gobans such as this one do occasionally show up on the market.
Being historical does not automatically make a GO BOARD famous or important. Recall that Genan lost all his money in his shipwreck and tried to recoup it by dishing out 1-dan diplomas left right and centre, hence the derogatory phrase Inseki shodan. It is probable that he signed BOARDS just as freely. This may be an Inseki BOARD.
BTW, can anyone translate what is written on that goban?
That's easy. This BOARD says 百戦百勝不如一忍 - "Being victorious one hundred times in one hundred battles is not as good as being forbearing once". This (I think - don't quote me) is from the Chinese poet Huang Tingjian and he goes on with something like "One hundred words and one hundred barbs are not as good as being silent once". After that, rather like the second verses of national anthems, the subsequent lines become hazy in the memory, but it may have been something like "One hundred gobans are not as good as one GO BOARD".
The BOARD in question (if genuine) can be dated post 1830 from Genan's signature where he naughtily styles himself Inseki XI and Dagoushou (= Meijin). I don't know, but I'd be fairly confident that he was still willing to use that style after his shipwreck, since he was so far away from Edo in remote Kyushu. In that case this BOARD would be dated post 1853.
I think insisting on "goban" when we have a perfectly adequate term in English is a bit of an affectation. Why don't those goban people use goishi instead of go stone or goke instead of go bowl? Saying "After the game I put my stones back in the bowl and put the bowl on the goban" is really strange.
gowan wrote:I think insisting on "goban" when we have a perfectly adequate term in English is a bit of an affectation. Why don't those goban people use goishi instead of go stone or goke instead of go bowl? Saying "After the game I put my stones back in the bowl and put the bowl on the goban" is really strange.
I don't know... I wouldn't find it strange if someone said something like, "I had some wasabi the other day, and it was really spicy. I ate some rice to cool down my mouth."
Here, they could have used the term, "Japanese horseradish" instead of wasabi (and why didn't they use something like 飯 instead of "rice"), but now that wasabi's a word that we hear often, it doesn't sound so unusual if someone uses the term.
I would think that the English language has a history of adopting foreign words into itself through wide usage by people using the words when speaking English. Witness how people use the word "ketchup" derived from the Cantonese Chinese dialect for "tomato sauce".
Secondly there are many jargon words in English which are used within specific subjects. I don't see why "goban" cannot be considered at least a jargon word when it is widely used within the go community and well understood by those within the community as being the board which they use to play their favorite game.
But this thread has really digressed from the original subject the thread starter was interested in.
http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.
Note that a board for playing chess is not called a 'chess board'. It's called a chessboard - a single special word just for that kind of board. If we were to have a single word for the board for playing go (and why not?), I'd much rather have 'goban' than 'goboard'.
I don't know... I wouldn't find it strange if someone said something like, "I had some wasabi the other day, and it was really spicy. I ate some rice to cool down my mouth."
Here, they could have used the term, "Japanese horseradish" instead of wasabi (and why didn't they use something like 飯 instead of "rice"), but now that wasabi's a word that we hear often, it doesn't sound so unusual if someone uses the term.
Bad example. Japanese horseradish means nothing to anyone and we don't have wasabi here. But we do have rice. Surely even you'd find it strange to hear someone say "I had gohan for lunch" instead of "I had rice for lunch".
tchan's plea for jargon falls on deaf ears with me. That's insiderism. Borrowing foreign words is fine, if it serves a good purpose. Goban has no good purpose.
Goban is good in foreign languages. For example, it's significally faster to say than "plateau de Go" in French, and therefore, i'll use it, knowing that the go community knows what I'm speaking about
John Fairbairn wrote: Bad example. Japanese horseradish means nothing to anyone and we don't have wasabi here. But we do have rice. Surely even you'd find it strange to hear someone say "I had gohan for lunch" instead of "I had rice for lunch".
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Why does Japanese horseradish mean nothing to anyone? Because it's something that's imported from Japan? Isn't the same true for go boards?
