the best way to study

[dedroid]

I would be interested in hearing opinions on what the best way to study would be. I remember having read somewhere that western players who go to japan to study as insei learn how to study as opposed to being coached by a professional all the time. I do agree that a good teacher is a significant help, though. i've mostly just stuck with go problems, pro games, and playing games. so what do you guys think is the best way to study? or is there even a best or most efficient way to study at all?

[odnihs]

Reviews from stronger players+tsumego and books is the way to go.

[SoDesuNe]

I have compiled a page on Sensei's Library with all my thoughts on improvement based on what made me stronger.
In short: Many Tsumegos, many games, a lot of reviews of lost games (by oneself or stronger players).

http://senseis.xmp.net/?SoDesuNe

[RobertJasiek]

Since you are asking for the best way, do ALL of the following:
- play a lot
- review your own games alone, with opponent, with kibitzes, with teachers
- read each book you can find in any language, esp. the better books
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/isbn.html
- follow basic advice like
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/improve.html
- read all the good webpages with correct contents
- for a start, solve at least 1500 problems
- study at least 1500 pro games (for the beginning, first 170 moves will do, but later you need to study also the endgame)
- take all those good teachers from that you do learn a lot, example:
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/teach.html
- attend each relevant tournament
- research in go knowledge where you can't find anything for a topic
- find out your weaknesses or let teachers tell you, then concentrate study on them
- enjoy what you are doing

16 hours per day should be the aim, but 14 are acceptable.

[palapiku]

16 hours per day should be the aim, but 14 are acceptable.

I have to disagree. If you study in the optimal way, eat, sleep and exercise properly, avoid alcohol and stimulants, and take short breaks every few weeks, then 13 1/2 hours a day should be enough.

[RobertJasiek]

Actually reports by fast improving players are pretty different. A very few have claimed almost not to have studied at all. A few say 7 or 9 hours. The majority seems to be in the eat, sleep or study camp. The 16 or (on lazy days) 14 hours are my experience.

[LovroKlc]

Actually reports by fast improving players are pretty different. A very few have claimed almost not to have studied at all. A few say 7 or 9 hours. The majority seems to be in the eat, sleep or study camp. The 16 or (on lazy days) 14 hours are my experience.

I find it pretty much impossible to stay concentrated for over 10 hours per day. Even professionals say to study over 10 hours per day, and that should probably be about 10 hours. If they studied much more, they would say over 11 hours. I am pretty sure that about 6-7 hours per day are a lot of time and you can learn very much that way, and have time for plenty of sleep, food, even maybe leaving the house every day! Also, I am sure that a lot of people would visit your teaching and book page even if you put the link in your signature only, and that way avoid spamming every possible post that has keyword book, study, improve, teacher or something. Of course, it is very nice to let people know about your wonderful prices for 10+ SGF variations per game and generalized advice on your major general weaknesses. You really made my day when I saw it!

[RobertJasiek]

16 hours study per day might be too much indeed, mixture can be important: playing 8 and studying 8 hours or so. (I don't like forum or newsgroup signatures. Spam or not - they just fill too much space.)

[gogameguru]

Physical exercise and well being is also more important than many Go players give it credit for. 16 hours of study operating at low efficiency is always going to be a waste of time. It's better to take some time out of that to exercise, eat well, sleep and give your brain time to consolidate things.

[Shaddy]

I like studying by playing many, many fast or blitz games mixed with some amount of tsumego, but I haven't tried any other way of improving so I have no way to determine how good this is.

[dangomango]

the best way to study is just choose what works for you

some people can only study for 2 hours some can only do it for like 10 mins
it depends on the person
playing is also considered studying cept you probably enjoy playing more

the most improvement i've had was just purely from reading books, understanding concepts and doing tsumegos
after that my levels in games increased dramatically

[singular]

Physical exercise and well being is also more important than many Go players give it credit for. 16 hours of study operating at low efficiency is always going to be a waste of time. It's better to take some time out of that to exercise, eat well, sleep and give your brain time to consolidate things.

This is important. I have been guilty of going off the rails and indulging in unbalanced study behaviour. But what I find is, when I start to exercise it snowballs to a point where I don't do anything else.

My unbalanced study time consists of problems, problems, problems and nothing else, with a few breaks to watch a game or two. I'm trying to completely consume Graded Go Problems III until I can instantly see the solution to each problem. I've been doing this for six weeks and I think it will take me another six weeks. No theory, just problems. This is because I'm weak with shape and tactics. I think attacking your weaknesses is a good way to study.

[jts]

with a few breaks to watch a game or two.

Maybe you're doing this for fun, but I think most people will tell you that watching amateur players won't make you stronger.

I'm trying to completely consume Graded Go Problems III until I can instantly see the solution to each problem. I've been doing this for six weeks and I think it will take me another six weeks.

I think this might be more effective if you were spending time with other tsumego sets in between each run-through of GGP3. There's always a question with tsumego as to whether your reading is becoming lightning-quick, or you're just memorizing the problem. Former good, latter bad; especially a problem with the GGPFB books because every problem has a verbal prompt.

[SoDesuNe]

with a few breaks to watch a game or two.

Maybe you're doing this for fun, but I think most people will tell you that watching amateur players won't make you stronger.

I'm trying to completely consume Graded Go Problems III until I can instantly see the solution to each problem. I've been doing this for six weeks and I think it will take me another six weeks.

I think this might be more effective if you were spending time with other tsumego sets in between each run-through of GGP3. There's always a question with tsumego as to whether your reading is becoming lightning-quick, or you're just memorizing the problem. Former good, latter bad; especially a problem with the GGPFB books because every problem has a verbal prompt.

I think it's quite the contrary in both cases ; )

Everybody tells me to replay pro-games and I don't find it useful at all, because:

a) The obvious one: Replaying and memorizing professional games takes a lot of time. When I would sit down and do this, I could easily do a bunch of Tsumegos, play a game and get it reviewed in the meantime instead.
So if you really want to follow this approach, be sure about two things: You have the necessary spare time and you will have to do it for a considerable amount of time, respective amount of professional games. Otherwise there will be almost no effect.

b) Understanding or just copying? Depending on your rank there will be a high chance that you will not understand every move of the game you're replaying. This strongly applies to most games with comments from internet sources, where it just says "A sharp move!" and offers maybe one variation every fifty moves. Printed books (e.g. Invincible or books by John Fairbairn) are a lot better in this regard.
The point here is: Copying moves does not enrich your play. The idea behind replaying professional games is not to be able to copy the moves but to understand why the players played the way they did, what a certain move should achieve, what they plan and so on. In the long shot you should get a broader view of the Go board to better assess the position and play according to a strategy: That is, shape, direction and flow.

c) If you have read Attack and Defense, you will have noticed that there are also quite a few professional games to illustrate certain principles. I really like this approach and that is at the same time a downside in replaying ("raw") professional games. Most of the time you don't have a focus on certain aspects, you just replay and memorize. So you can't tell - in general - what a game has taught or will teach you if you did not focus on it in the first place. To do so requires some thoughts before you even start looking at the game: What do you want to learn? And if you have a clear conscience, why don't you buy a book, which is specialized on this particular matter in the first place? (Like Attack and Defense.)

And for memorizing Tsumegos, I think it's a good way to internalize basic shapes. So everything up to Graded Go Problems for Beginners Vol. 4 will often come up in your game, so why is it bad to know in an instant where to move?

[jts]

And for memorizing Tsumegos, I think it's a good way to internalize basic shapes. So everything up to Graded Go Problems for Beginners Vol. 4 will often come up in your game, so why is it bad to know in an instant where to move?

Hey SDN, I'm sure you're more qualified to give advice than I am, but I think you misunderstood what I said.

First, I wasn't saying singular should play through pro games, I was saying he shouldn't watch amateur games (for improvement, that is... obviously it's a ton of fun, and I do it all the time).

Second, the inutility of copying moves was my point. If you redo a set of tsumego immediately after the you finish it, especially when each problem has a verbal cue, you are likely to remember the solution because you remember it, rather than because you have internalized the principles that make it the solution. If you are only remembering the solution, rather than how to find the solution, then you won't be able to handle a similar situation in a game.

If you actually disagree with me, I would love for you to explain why I'm wrong.