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 Post subject: The bestest of books
Post #1 Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:39 am 
Oza
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In a recent thread Robert Jasiek linked to his capsule book reviews, which I found fascinating mainly because of his convention that the highest ranked books (++) will cause any kyu player who reads them to gain "considerably more than one rank".

Now, we've done a version of "best go books" again and again, but I would like people to nominate books for the (++) category - or alternatively, attack other people's nominations.

For reference, Robert's list is:

Joseki vol. 1: Fundamentals
Joseki vol. 2: Strategy
Tesuji (Davies)
Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go
Stategic Concepts of Go
Attack and Defense

HIs slightly less prestigious (+) category comprises:

Fuseki Dictionary (Takagawa Kaku)
Fuseki Dictionary (Rin Kaiho)
Modern Opening (Kweon Kyeong-un)
Tesuji Encyclopedia (Nihon Kiin)
Kansufu
Gengen Gokyo
Hatsuyoron
All About Life and Death
Counting Liberties and Winning Capturing Races
Master of Haengma
Haengma Dictionary

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #2 Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:59 am 
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Best books:
Kageyama's "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go" ( #1 go book in English, IMHO )
Kajiwara's "Direction of Play"

Second tier:
Kato's "Attack and Kill"
Shuko's 4-vol tesuji dictionary
Ishida's 3-vol joseki dictionary
Yang's Fundamentals

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #3 Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:24 pm 
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Imho the best ones are the ones that get you started.
The ones that help you get started become the building blocks of your foundation of knowledge.
There's a Chinese saying: Even the tallest buildings all start from the ground
(萬丈高樓從地起)
In another word, even buildings as tall as the twin towers will collapse if it's not built without the proper groundwork.

Learn to Play Go vol 1-5 by Janice Kim
and
Graded go problems vol 2-4

They help me understood not only basic concepts of go but laid the fundamental groundwork of my go as well.
They are easy to understand and very detailed with lots of pictures and examples.

I am probably biased because I've read them and I jumped from beginner to sdk within a month or two just from these series.

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #4 Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:52 pm 
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I seriously think that which particular books are best for a given player depends on many things, the level of the player among others. But also the temperament, what you actually need at the moment, and so on. To say that any specific book will get any given kyu player to gain a few ranks is, imho, rather foolish and shows some basic lack of understanding not only of Go but also of human nature.

Having said the above, here are my favorite books, ones that helped me the most:

Throughout:
- Lessons in the Fundamentals, by Kageyama (my very first Go book, read it many times)
- Invincible (although I did not have this book until high SKD level)

At DDK levels and some on SDK:
- The Elementary Go Series (most of the volumes... I never fully got through the Endgame and the Attack and Defense was slightly above me at that time.)
- Opening Theory Made Easy by Otake

At SDK levels:
- Attack and Defense from EGS
- Strategic Concepts of Go, bu Nagahara?
- Ishida's Joseki Dictionary

I am not sure if any of them really can take credit for getting me up in rank by themselves. Reading 'Life and Death' and 'Tesuji' from the EGS sure got me up a few ranks at the time, but it is possible that any other books of the same subject would have done the same. Or maybe not...

Anyhow... I have read and studied pretty much all of the english-language Go books published up until a few years back, and many of the non-english ones, but the above books are the titles I am most thankful for. But that's just me...

I cannot really comment on beginner books (i.e. ones teaching you the actual rules, like the Janics Kim books) since I learned the game long before any such book found its way to my library.

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #5 Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:42 pm 
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These ones already mentioned that I absolutely agree with for [++] rating
- Davies, James - Tesuji: Every time you study this book, it will make you stronger. You can sudy this from DDK level right up to dan level.
- Kageyama, Toshiro - Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go: It's the single best book written on go ever. If there is one book to rule them all, this would be it.
- Ishida, Akira and Davies, James: Attack and Defense: great explanation of leaning and splitting attacks.

Other books that have all made me gain more than two stones, and I consider to be [++]
- Kano Yoshinori - Graded Go Problems for Beginners: Though every volume has the potential to make you two stones stronger if you study it at the right time in your development, I especially remember volume 2 for singlehandedly making me gain 3 stones in a few weeks' time.
- Bozulich, Richard - The Second Book of Go: After you've learned the rules and gained some basic reading strength (through games and go problems), this is the one book that everybody will recommend you take up. Studying this book will lay a solid foundation in every part of your game, including the opening, good shape, tesuji, endgame, etc.

Bantari wrote:
- Invincible (although I did not have this book until high SKD level)
Although an awesome book, I can't see it providing such a jump in skill, unless you are already a strong dan-level player.

Bantari wrote:
- The Elementary Go Series (most of the volumes... I never fully got through the Endgame and the Attack and Defense was slightly above me at that time.)
Without that atrocious volume 2, called '38 Basic Joseki', no doubt. That one is just aweful. The other five are quite good, particularly volumes 3-5.

dangomango wrote:
Learn to Play Go vol 1-5 by Janice Kim
I just can't get myself to like these books. That's just as much a result of the actual feel of the books, with their large format, as well as the drawings inside. The people that learn go with them seem to swear by these books, though.

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #6 Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:51 pm 
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Hushfield wrote:
- Kageyama, Toshiro - Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go: It's the single best book written on go ever.


In the category "motivation of what to study next or later", it is a good candidate for the single best book. In the category "amount of knowledge needed for study", it is rather weak though. In the category entertainment, it belongs to the top books but is not the single best book (Treasure Chest Engima is an equal candidate there).

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #7 Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:43 pm 
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In my opinion the best books are (beginner/intermediate because that's where I stand ^^):

Tesuji (++)
Get Strong at Tesuji (++)
Opening Theory Made Easy (++)
Graded Go Problems For Beginner series (++)

Attack and Defense (+)
Making Good Shape (+)
Rescue and Capture (+)
Maeda's Intermediate Level Problems (+)

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #8 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:08 am 
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Lee Changho Tsumego Series ++
Lee Changho Tesuji Series +/++ (though volume 2 seemed oddly too easy and dull, compared to volume 1)

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #9 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:14 pm 
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++ First
Attack and Defense
Toshiro Kageyama - Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go
The Analyzed Games of Go Seigen
Sakata Eio - The Middle Game Of Go Vol. 1 ( First book, Some one was throwing it away and was about to burn it So I grabbed it )

+ Second
Gengen Gokyo
Hatsuyoron

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #10 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:14 pm 
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I don't think reading any book has improved my rank the 1st time through. Maybe for some problem books the 10th time through... :-)

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #11 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:06 pm 
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Hushfield wrote:
Bantari wrote:
- The Elementary Go Series (most of the volumes... I never fully got through the Endgame and the Attack and Defense was slightly above me at that time.)
Without that atrocious volume 2, called '38 Basic Joseki', no doubt. That one is just aweful.


Yeah, I sort-of forgot about this one.

Although, to tell you the truth, I did not find it that bad. At the level I have read it it seemed to me more useful than Ishida - the only alternative I had. It did not loose me in a jungle of complicated variations and provided simple and easy to understand sequences for many of the common josekis. Of course, my games seldom followed those selected patterns, but the book still game the the general feeling for the direction of play and development from the josekis I played. So I would not knock it off, personally.

Still, I agree that it is the weakest of the series.

The other volume of the ES I usually 'forget' is the 7th volume - Handicap Go. Don't think I every actually read this from cover to cover as I did the other ones.

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #12 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:43 pm 
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So the cumulative, unscientific list of ++'s is:

Attack and Defense [RJ, Bantari, Hushfield, Hazushi]
Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go [RJ,Joaz, Hushfield, Hazushi]
Tesuji (Davies) [RJ, Hushfield, SDN]
GGP [Dango, Hushfield, SDN]
Stategic Concepts of Go [RJ, Bantari]
Joseki vol. 1: Fundamentals [RJ]
Joseki vol. 2: Strategy [RJ]
Direction of Play [Joaz]
Learn to Play Go [Dango]
Ishida Joseki [Bantari]
Second Book of Go [Hushfield]
Opening TME [SDN]
Lee Changho Tsumego [Gaius]
Lee Changho Tesuji [Gaius]
Go Seigen Games [Hazushi]
The Middle Game (Sakata) [Hazushi]


Thanks to everyone who has participated so far! I'm actually somewhat surprised that there's so little skepticism that (++) books exist.

My own (++) list:
Cho Chikun Elementary Problems
Tesuji (Davies)

That's based on personal experience... but I can't say for sure that they would help someone who had already done different tsumego or different tesuji books. I would like to say that "Attack and Defense" is (++), but while I enjoy Go much more, I actually haven't improved that much since I read it.

Some questions:
1. For people who recommended series - is the series as a whole (++), or each individual book in the series?
2. Was your estimate that a book is (++) premised on the reader giving the book one thorough reading, or on fully understanding the material in it?
3. I'm assuming that most of the (++) are only valid if it's your first time... clearly there are diminishing returns to, say, knowing more tesuji. If you think the book you're recommending is (++) even if you've already studied the topic a little, I'd be curious to know that.

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #13 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:02 am 
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jts wrote:
Some questions:
1. For people who recommended series - is the series as a whole (++), or each individual book in the series?
2. Was your estimate that a book is (++) premised on the reader giving the book one thorough reading, or on fully understanding the material in it?
3. I'm assuming that most of the (++) are only valid if it's your first time... clearly there are diminishing returns to, say, knowing more tesuji. If you think the book you're recommending is (++) even if you've already studied the topic a little, I'd be curious to know that.



1. In the Graded Go Problems For Beginner series every book itself is in my opinion (++). I can't say this about any other series I know (I guess Yi Chang'ho Life-and-Death and Tesuji will be very good as well but I didn't solve them yet).
2. For me a book needs to be a good read in the first place. Then it should teach something and it should have a good presentation (e.g. structure, diagrammes, text format). Lastly it should offer enough so I can go through it several time. If you don't enjoy a book while you read it the first time it becomes work and less fun. So I guess, my (++) books are (++) because you can get a lot out of them by your first reading and still when you read it again.
3. See above. My books are (++) because you can still enjoy the read and learn from them in the second, third or fourth reading.

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #14 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:05 am 
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jts wrote:
Some questions:
1. For people who recommended series - is the series as a whole (++), or each individual book in the series?
2. Was your estimate that a book is (++) premised on the reader giving the book one thorough reading, or on fully understanding the material in it?
3. I'm assuming that most of the (++) are only valid if it's your first time... clearly there are diminishing returns to, say, knowing more tesuji. If you think the book you're recommending is (++) even if you've already studied the topic a little, I'd be curious to know that.
1. The elementary go series is a good series as a whole (haven't found the 7th volume on handicap go yet), but it's the individual volumes that make the series as a whole good. I've always seen them more as stand-alone books than volumes in one coherent series. Volumes 3, 4 and 5 stand out.
2. Reading the material immediately had an impact, but it's only way down the line, when you feel you finally understand the concepts presented in the book, that you notice just how much of an impact the book really had.
3. Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go becoms even better the more you read it. As you progress further you start looking for complicated tesuji, brilliant moves, while all you need is right here. "It's the best go players that can keep on making simple moves." Kageyama's masterpiece stays ++. Ishida's 'Attack and Defense' falls in the diminishing returns area for me. I rate it ++ on the first time through, but once you've learned about splitting attacks and started applying that in your own games it becomes more of a + category book.
Tesuji is a borderline case. I guess there will come a time when it falls down to the + category, but at my current level that time hasn't come. I still smile at the awesomeness of the keima tesuji in capturing the cutting stones, but I'm no longer as in awe as I was the first time around. Same for Graded Go Problems for Beginners. Their ++ status has an expiration date, namely the day you wake up and find yourself to be a solid dan-level player. I've heard they do stay + class then as a source of easy to solve warm-up problems.
'The second book of go' has already reached its expiration date for me, and I think that for many players it's only ++ on their first time through. If you take your time to study every chapter patiently and apply the concepts in your own game, that is. But it certainly doesn't stay ++ for the rest of your go career.


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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #15 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:22 pm 
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Lessons in the fundamentals of Go
On Your Side
36 stratagems applied to go
Sabaki- Yilun Yang article

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #16 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:45 pm 
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jts wrote:
2. Was your estimate that a book is (++) premised on the reader giving the book one thorough reading, or on fully understanding the material in it?
3. I'm assuming that most of the (++) are only valid if it's your first time... clearly there are diminishing returns to, say, knowing more tesuji. If you think the book you're recommending is (++) even if you've already studied the topic a little, I'd be curious to know that.


My previous comment is related to these questions 2) and 3). First of all, IMHO, reading a book may do nothing at all for your playing strength. In fact, initially it may make it worse as you try new things you saw in the book but don't yet understand. By the time you understand, it may be hard to trace back the improvement to any given book, especially if you are doing other things like playing or getting advice from stronger players. I never read a book and then put it down and said: "aha, now I see the light" and immediately started playing better. I have read all of the books on your appended list except for Robert's and Sakata's, plus many more that aren't listed. That being said, like a trumpet player always looking for the perfect mouthpiece, I still dream of seeing such a book someday and so I probably will check out Robert's and Sakata's.

My playing strength has always been highly correlated with my reading ability at the time (as measured by the difficulty of tsumego that I can solve). It's painfully, unforgivingly correlated and often it seems there is not a damn concept or strategy or philosophy in the world that has ever seemed to break that. For me, only improvements in reading improve rank.

But I may be a really bad example because I do study. People who never study at all but just play may be able to benefit from an occasional book. I'm not rejecting the idea that ++ books exist for some people. I just haven't had that experience. I hope I'm not alone.

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #17 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:44 pm 
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I have a lot of books, but in terms of books that were "aha" epiphany eye openers that really improved my game:

1. Opening theory made easy. As a DDK just starting to get serious about Go (I think I was maybe 18k), this really shrunk the 19x19 board to something that made sense to me on a strategic level. Prior to this, I was just laying stones on the board without much more rhyme or reason than corners-side-center. After it, I at least had some sense of what my goals are for the opening. It also taught some basic concepts of shape and things like that.

2. Second book of Go - Basically the chapters on capture races. After reading those chapters, I was beating stronger players by reading out that I could win capture races that looked intractable to read out the usual way. This was at the DDK/SDK border.

3. Bruce Wilcox's "Dojo" - At maybe 7 or 8 kyu I went through his book and his two computer programs (interactive lectures essentially). It provided a basic framework for understanding what makes moves proper or improper. In terms of codifying "kyu basic instinct" his material is invaluable.

4. Making good shape - I recently went through the book entirely. Including all the problems. There's an obvious blip up in my rank graph in the past two months or so (from half way to 3k to 3k) when I was working through with this book. It's helped me think in terms of "okay, I want to connect, are there any forcing moves I can make in the mean time for profit?" which if nothing else puts my opponent on edge :) Basically the problems in the book got me to see opportunities in games where, even if a forcing exchange doesn't kill an enemy group, if I can force it to eat stones in exchange for influence or clump his stones into dumplings in sente, that's a solid victory for me.

Other books are good but I wouldn't describe them as making me significantly stronger after reading them.

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #18 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:14 pm 
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RobertJasiek wrote:
Hushfield wrote:
- Kageyama, Toshiro - Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go: It's the single best book written on go ever.


In the category "amount of knowledge needed for study", it is rather weak though.


What do you mean by that? Do you mean you need too much previous knowledge in order to study effectively with it? Or that you don't gain enough knowledge?

I've always had the impression that you need to be at least a strong SDK, if not dan, to really benefit from it. But that's just a feeling I get from talking to people of various ranks who have read that book...

jts wrote:
For reference, Robert's list is:

Joseki vol. 1: Fundamentals
Joseki vol. 2: Strategy
Tesuji (Davies)
Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go
Stategic Concepts of Go
Attack and Defense


I agree 100% with this list, at least on the books I have already read. That sort of makes me want to get the missing ones ;)

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #19 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:46 pm 
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The point is, you can't learn anything from Kageyama's about the game itself, except for: "Make solid moves", "Let your stones go walking", "Read ladders, they are so damn easy!" But you learn a lot about learning go, approaching josekis and correcting your attitude towards the game. So the book helps you improve but not by showing you fusekis, tesujis or what so ever.
And you can learn something from it, no matter what your rank is, as it does not teach you (a lot) technical stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: The bestest of books
Post #20 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:21 pm 
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1 Life and Death
2 Tesuji
3 Attack and defense

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