I have no doubt that Wilcox is a strong player and a fine teacher, but if you rely exclusively on him, you are presuming that he can anticipate any misunderstanding that you have. You really need some interactive comments.
I'll try to do a review later
I lose to another 8k
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: I lose to another 8k
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: I lose to another 8k
Move 7: This looks too small. I don't know the joseki from the ogeima - or even if it is joseki - but it just feels wrong.
Early in the game, a player should be making sure that his groups are either safe with eye space or easy running room, or light enough to be expendable. ( For a nice example of this by a 6D, see http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 140#p61140. Note that all of white's stones are either single stones that can be abandoned at little cost, or have the beginnings of eye shape. )
Toward this end, 1-space extensions are usually made only in the corner where space is tight. Along the side, extensions are usually 2 spaces or more.
With move 7, you are making your group heavy enough that it can't be easily abandoned, yet you are not really getting eye space. He demonstrates that fact with the obvious move 8 at 'a'.
If you want to go for eye space in the corner, 'b' looks ok. Extensions to 'c' or 'd' look best. And, given that you have a stone in the lower left corner, a chinese-ish play at 'e' or even 'f' might not be unreasonable.
Move 15: As the twig is bent, so grows the tree. You're committed to your tiny 1-space extension, and when you build on it, you are getting way over-crowded.
You have this shape ( with the skeleton provided by the original 1-space extension circled ):
...but you would much prefer this shape:
...or even this:
Moves 19 and 21: The decendants of the 1-space jump are alive and ...uhh...not well. You have played 7 stones and barely have 3 or 4 points if white plays first. Indeed it is not immediately clear that black has two eyes in the face of a determined white attack.
Moves 49 and 65: The overcrowding continues. There are nine stones getting maybe seven points. The overconcentrated shape is a direct result of move 7.
Ok, I'm done abusing move 7.
Let's look at other stuff.
Move 31: He has invaded your framework. You have a strong 3-stone group at the left and a single stone to the right. When attacking, you want to force him toward your strength, right? H3 or G4 looks better here.
Move 33: Again, this forces him away from your strength, and allows him eye space that he desperately wants. Instead, K3 would really crowd him. Next is maybe K3, J4, J5 ( you get the hane at the head of two stones ) and you are getting the beginnings of big territory in the lower right.
Early in the game, a player should be making sure that his groups are either safe with eye space or easy running room, or light enough to be expendable. ( For a nice example of this by a 6D, see http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 140#p61140. Note that all of white's stones are either single stones that can be abandoned at little cost, or have the beginnings of eye shape. )
Toward this end, 1-space extensions are usually made only in the corner where space is tight. Along the side, extensions are usually 2 spaces or more.
With move 7, you are making your group heavy enough that it can't be easily abandoned, yet you are not really getting eye space. He demonstrates that fact with the obvious move 8 at 'a'.
If you want to go for eye space in the corner, 'b' looks ok. Extensions to 'c' or 'd' look best. And, given that you have a stone in the lower left corner, a chinese-ish play at 'e' or even 'f' might not be unreasonable.
Move 15: As the twig is bent, so grows the tree. You're committed to your tiny 1-space extension, and when you build on it, you are getting way over-crowded.
You have this shape ( with the skeleton provided by the original 1-space extension circled ):
...but you would much prefer this shape:
...or even this:
Moves 19 and 21: The decendants of the 1-space jump are alive and ...uhh...not well. You have played 7 stones and barely have 3 or 4 points if white plays first. Indeed it is not immediately clear that black has two eyes in the face of a determined white attack.
Moves 49 and 65: The overcrowding continues. There are nine stones getting maybe seven points. The overconcentrated shape is a direct result of move 7.
Ok, I'm done abusing move 7.
Let's look at other stuff.Move 31: He has invaded your framework. You have a strong 3-stone group at the left and a single stone to the right. When attacking, you want to force him toward your strength, right? H3 or G4 looks better here.
Move 33: Again, this forces him away from your strength, and allows him eye space that he desperately wants. Instead, K3 would really crowd him. Next is maybe K3, J4, J5 ( you get the hane at the head of two stones ) and you are getting the beginnings of big territory in the lower right.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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thequietcenter
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Re: I lose to another 8k
oren wrote:thequietcenter wrote:So, I mainly will be focusing on the Wilcox material again and again and again.
What will you do when the pro and the Wilcox material disagree?
Wilcox - he's closer to my level of play
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My twitch stream is https://www.twitch.tv/thedeepself
My flashcard software for baduk is www.may69.com/flash-goban
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thequietcenter
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Re: I lose to another 8k
Aphelion wrote:I'm fairly convinced that your overreliance on Wilcox's material is actually hindering your progress, but I don't think you will listen. If you are willing to give it a thought, I will explain more.
No, I wont listen. Pretty much KGS Teaching Ladder is where I learn now.
That and Wilcox's go dojo.
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judicata
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Re: I lose to another 8k
thequietcenter wrote:
Wilcox - he's closer to my level of play
Oren and Aphelion are even closer to your level...
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amnal
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Re: I lose to another 8k
thequietcenter wrote:Aphelion wrote:I'm fairly convinced that your overreliance on Wilcox's material is actually hindering your progress, but I don't think you will listen. If you are willing to give it a thought, I will explain more.
No, I wont listen. Pretty much KGS Teaching Ladder is where I learn now.
That and Wilcox's go dojo.
What would you do if Wilcox told you to ignore his advice?
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Numsgil
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Re: I lose to another 8k
As someone who really likes Wilcox's material and knows it very well, I will weigh in a bit Basically, you're not quite getting some of the more advanced lessons.
For instance, you did not tenuki from urgent positions (that's good), but you seem over zealous about treating every stone as valuable (that's bad), and the result is that you end up over concentrated. There are many times you made mistakes as bad as adding liberties to a group with 6 or more already.
1. For instance, black 15. I won't say it's a bad move (you do probably need to protect your eyespace), but you end up very over concentrated.
2. The 17-18 exchange gives you some eye space, but it makes 19 over concentrated. Without the 17-18 exchange, 19 threatens to peek into white's base and makes shape, making it a more dual purpose move. As it is, 19 is overconcentrated. Your group is also very strong, though.
3. 21 is the "proper" response only if you treat this stone as isolated. It is not. There is overwhelming black thickness here, which makes the stone virtually connected to the other nearby stones. Have you done the section in contact fights about virtual connections? This is basically like adding liberties to a group with 7 or 8 liberties already.
4. 23: This isn't in Wilcox's material at all, but it is in Yilun Yang's (if you like Wilcox's approach, you should pick up some of Yilun Yang's materials also. Eg: Fundamental Principles of Go). You'd be better off approaching white's 3-4 stone, as it's simply the bigger move.
5. 31: Have you done the sector fight material yet? Can white's stone run to the sides? (Hint: yes, to the right). If so, then trying to cap the grouse in is premature (I could be mangling this lesson a bit, actually, since you do have K4 acting as a light pincer. I'd have to look at the material again to see what it would say about the position). Regardless, H3 instead would be a good move to solidify your territory and pincer the stone and force it to run out. Even with a one space extension it would still be within your sector line. The problem is that center thickness isn't useful for you. I know there's sections in the sector fight material about picking direction.
6. 33: You do need to respond, but you picked the wrong direction. This move has no profit. K3 helps secure territory and limits white's eyespace. I know this is in Wilcox's material, though I forget where exactly.
...
Basically, you have some of the basic lessons down, but you don't understand some of the more advanced lessons, and you don't seem to have an overarching plan. You need to have some idea about what you're trying to achieve, and then use Wilcox's material as the means to that end. He talks about this in the sector fights material where he has a game with half a dozen weak running groups battling each other.
Basically, you're not quite getting some of the more advanced lessons.For instance, you did not tenuki from urgent positions (that's good), but you seem over zealous about treating every stone as valuable (that's bad), and the result is that you end up over concentrated. There are many times you made mistakes as bad as adding liberties to a group with 6 or more already.
1. For instance, black 15. I won't say it's a bad move (you do probably need to protect your eyespace), but you end up very over concentrated.
2. The 17-18 exchange gives you some eye space, but it makes 19 over concentrated. Without the 17-18 exchange, 19 threatens to peek into white's base and makes shape, making it a more dual purpose move. As it is, 19 is overconcentrated. Your group is also very strong, though.
3. 21 is the "proper" response only if you treat this stone as isolated. It is not. There is overwhelming black thickness here, which makes the stone virtually connected to the other nearby stones. Have you done the section in contact fights about virtual connections? This is basically like adding liberties to a group with 7 or 8 liberties already.
4. 23: This isn't in Wilcox's material at all, but it is in Yilun Yang's (if you like Wilcox's approach, you should pick up some of Yilun Yang's materials also. Eg: Fundamental Principles of Go). You'd be better off approaching white's 3-4 stone, as it's simply the bigger move.
5. 31: Have you done the sector fight material yet? Can white's stone run to the sides? (Hint: yes, to the right). If so, then trying to cap the grouse in is premature (I could be mangling this lesson a bit, actually, since you do have K4 acting as a light pincer. I'd have to look at the material again to see what it would say about the position). Regardless, H3 instead would be a good move to solidify your territory and pincer the stone and force it to run out. Even with a one space extension it would still be within your sector line. The problem is that center thickness isn't useful for you. I know there's sections in the sector fight material about picking direction.
6. 33: You do need to respond, but you picked the wrong direction. This move has no profit. K3 helps secure territory and limits white's eyespace. I know this is in Wilcox's material, though I forget where exactly.
...
Basically, you have some of the basic lessons down, but you don't understand some of the more advanced lessons, and you don't seem to have an overarching plan. You need to have some idea about what you're trying to achieve, and then use Wilcox's material as the means to that end. He talks about this in the sector fights material where he has a game with half a dozen weak running groups battling each other.