Do you make an effort to play a move that is not seeking an advantage, but is balanced? How do you get out of the mindset of trying to get an advantage?

I'm not there yet. Nowhere near. Just trying not to trip over myself at the moment.

So Black splits the left side. This is one choice. The other would have been to deal with the top. Which to choose? Both have been played by the pros.

Consider this situation compared to the game...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W. . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here White has a traditional 3-4 based shimari in the lower left. How does this affect the left side? In both cases the left side looks equally "big". However, I would propose that here the left side is more "urgent" than in the game. Why? If Black plays elsewhere and White encloses the left side with a play around "a", the stronger hold on the lower left corner here leaves fewer opportunities for Black to invade and reduce the side. In the game, the remaining weaknesses in the lower left corner make a White enclosure of the side less complete, less valuable, let's say less urgent. (see topazg's new thread on big versus urgent here)

Relatively speaking, I would say that the upper side is more urgent in the game than it is here. However, that is a relative judgment and it is not the same as saying that the upper side is absolutely more important than the left. I am aiming to push Black around on the left a bit, but also to try to play first on the upper side.

This is something I've seen a few times in professional games. If White jumps inside, I can play for thickness and leave the aji in the lower left corner. If White looks after the corner, I get stronger shape than with a two point jump. Compare:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm9 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

with:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm9 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm9 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 3 2 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 1 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Haven't decided where to put yet.

Some very different games lead from the last two, but I prefer both to the diagram with the "simple" two space jump. I could be wrong though.

Part of the reason why I opted to allow White to secure his corner in the lower left is that he's now left open a sente (for me) invasion of the top left instead, so I'm equally happy with my ability to get compensation. Ironically, that sequence (first var) gives him sente, and taking the top edge is simply huge now. I envisage something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm9 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a e . . . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , b . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . X . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . , 8 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . 6 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Still aiming for moves around "a", "b" and "c", but White is probably going to aim at moves like "d" and "e". It could get complicated

The key point is that the type of "balance" that I am thinking about IS an advantage. Unfortunately "balance" has a general meaning that is not Go related. As a result we can be confused by connotations leaking over into our Go discussions. Choose the right "balance" for what you are trying to achieve! Again, my current "vivid" image for balance is that of a fighter: weight centered, facing the opponent, ready to move naturally forward or back, and to apply force where ever needed. It is the opposite of seeking a balanced result with the opponent. The difference between seeking advantage and seeking balance is more the idea of appropriate restraint. Do not seek to grasp as much as possible with each play. That can throw us off balance and leave us over-exposed to counter attacks by the opponent.

Needless to say this is easy describe in abstract terms, but much less easy to do faced with a real opponent who is equally intent on winning.

Also considering this one:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm9 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , 5 . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm9 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 7 6 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , 5 . . . . X 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Wow, so many results I can't predict already. Go is rather fun.

I know you mentioned the fighter analogy earlier, but maybe it didn't sink in with me as much when you said it the first time.

I kind of like this idea of balance.

We just bought a Wii last week, and this discussion reminds me a little bit of the sword fighting game that they have on the one game, I think it's called "Wii Sports Resort" or something.

Anyway, if I just go all out and try to whack my wife off of the platform, I get thrown off balance, and she can counterattack.

Instead, if I hold a defensive position and she goes to attack, her balance is thrown off, and I get the opportunity to whack her off of the platform.

It gets more interesting when both players realize this strategy. Then, in order to win I have to start whacking to feign an opening, but then draw back and defend. When she attacks the opening, I am blocking, so then she gets thrown off balance, and I have an opening to attack.

Anyway, it sounds interesting to apply this to go. Maybe if I go directly toward "whacking" my opponent, there will be a weakness in my shape that can be attacked at a later point in the game. Perhaps it's better to keep a balance, waiting for my opponent's weakness, and then "whack" that weakness until he falls off of the platform... :-p

It's kind of a fun analogy. I will try thinking about this when I play another game later today (of go, not Wii Sports Resort).

Of course, what seems inherent in this analogy is the ability to recognize weaknesses... In order to use the analogy above, I must be able to recognize exactly when there is an opening for either side.

In a sense I think this contradicts what I wrote before about pursuing a balanced position for White. However, the normal next step on the left is for White to invade into the Black extension. This can lead to several major variations but most of the time White will split or simply give up the bottom left corner. In this case I would like to know how Black reacts in the upper right before choosing a path in the bottom left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Note that if Black ignores the play in the upper right, we revert to something like this, where Black splits the ni-ren-sei...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . 5 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here would be a typical continuation along the left. White might simply play , expecting and the opportunity to play a second time in the upper right.

Somehow, I don't like the latter of the two diagrams quoted, above. Black's stones seem a little bit awkward to me next to white's pillar in the corner.

Does anyone else feel this way?

Well the current situation in this game should provide some excellent practice. All of a sudden there are nothing but weaknesses everywhere on the board

Fair enough - changes play order, but same idea here.

I've chosen far and high because of White's presence in the top left, I don't want him to be able to jump out and pincer, which would happen if played low, and I want to exert some gentle large scale on his meta-shimari in the top left. That way, if I get to invade the 3-3, I've already set the wheels in motion to negate the value of his wall. It also will serve as a ladder breaker if he can create a shenaniganny variation with the group on the lower left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm9 Tenuki
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

would be my choice. I am not at all concerned about . Black has prevented White's ideal formation on the left side, and White is rather thin. The bottom left corner looks awkward.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm9 Dave's play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I like Dave's play at .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm9 This jump
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , 3 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After here I prefer the jump to over the jump to "a". (I do not play it right away, OC). For one thing, it has more potential for development, for another, it threatens to invade the top left.

I suppose, locally, white might play a bit closer:
[hide]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm9 Tenuki
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And this still prevents a smooth 2-space extension.

However, this puts little pressure on black, it seems, so black should still not be afraid, I guess. And, it's not clear to me whether black can live in the corner.

Also, the bottom left still looks slightly awkward to me... Though, maybe less than if white extends further.

I also like the idea of a black tenuki, somewhat.

This was my first reaction. After thinking about it, I decided to stick with it. Basically I read Black's previous as agreeing with me that the top is an important area in this game. Having general ideas like that is not necessarily a good thing. They can lead us to not recognize the changing dynamics of the situation until it is too late. Hopefully that is not the case here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Expectations
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O b . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 3 a , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I expect Black to answer on the right. If he does, I will counter-pincer immediately. With the upper left corner White, I have no interest in the joseki where I slide under at Q18 then L18. At the moment, I am leaning toward as shown here but "a" is another possibility. Black often exchanges "b" for "c" when White does not slide in. In that case, I think White may be happier with "a".

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[go]$$Wc Alternative - version 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 8 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The alternative that I seriously considered was entering at here. With the marked stone low, White expects Black to block toward the upper side as shown. At this point I think the value of the marked stone has been degraded somewhat and Black is left trying to settle the upper side and the left side together. I do not think White would stand worse.

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[go]$$Wc Alternative - version 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 3 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X 0 7 6 4 X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 8 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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[go]$$Wc Alternative - version 2 cont'd
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X X O X X X X b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X c . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . 7 5 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 6 4 X . . |
$$ | . . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If Black does go ahead and block on the right side, something like this, through , results. I might immediately play the shoulder hit at but would have to think about it. In any case there is a lot of aji left in the upper right as White threatens to pull out the single stone with "a". If Black played at "a" to capture the White stone in a ladder, there are some standard moves like "b" or "c" to try to cut off and threaten the four Black stones at Q16 in order to reduce the right side. In this game Black also may have to face a ladder block around "d" if White goes in that direction.

Good, this seems like the most natural way to play, which hopefully means I understand some of it. I'm bound to get pincered, but because I played high, I'm tempted to invade the 3-3 in the top left as soon as he does. Really not sure if that's overplay or not though. Will do some reading, but this seems a great result, if he lets me:

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[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 4 . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . 5 . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Having said that, that thickness is kinda mighty nice, and my two stones aren't all that happy. Maybe I should bide my time - when I lose games badly, it tends to be leaving groups a bit weak a bit too late.

Sticking with what I wrote in the last post.

My heart says 3-3, my head says jump out. Can he pick a line to respond to the 3-3 that keeps sente and lets him cap me? Do I gain enough that I can live with this? Are my sabaki skills up to the task if it happens? Do I get better long term profit by keeping his two stones on the run? Do I cut my losses and cap at O13, before invading the 3-3 and taking sente for a big point? Decisions decisions.

Ok, I decided, and not what I expected to decide at all. Basically, I've decided that White can jump with me, and I'm likely to become heavy up there. I want to invade the 3-3, but looking after this stone is urgent, as the top side overall is bigger than me successfully invading the corner anyway, so he can trade. I'm looking at this as some form of sabaki:

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[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . d c b . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . , B . 5 6 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 8 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My reading of White cutting at "a" with is favourable for me, so I'm hoping I can get this result. I'm slightly wondering whether this "b" is a kikashi to exchange for "c" (if White ignores, I'm pretty sure "d" connects "b" to the marked stone, but I'll worry about that after this peep, as the peep is necessary for any connection there to work.

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[go]$$Bcm15 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . , X 8 1 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 . 5 4 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 7 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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[go]$$Bcm15 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . , X 9 1 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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[go]$$Bcm15 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 8 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . , X 6 1 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 3 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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[go]$$Bcm15 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . , X . 1 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 3 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]