8 k vs 10 k, two handicap, B+R, Japanese rules, 02.07.2011

Sevis · Post by **Sevis** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:41 pm

Hullo everyone,

After playing this game, I almost immediately decided I had to put it up here for review. I've reviewed it myself (briefly), and have added some variations and comments. I have the feeling my fuseki is particularly bad -- the later chase was also a double trainwreck, but I think I was already losing (badly) by then.

This is generally the kind of game that I have once in a while, where I soon stop, and wonder where I went wrong. Everything seems to be going okay-ish, but my opponent is consistently outfighting, outgrabbing, or outchasing me. I'm not quite sure what to do in such situations -- he is obviously playing better than I am, but even looking for the biggest move I can see, I still end up playing too small.

Anyway, sorry for the long intro -- in short, a review would be greatly appreciated. ^^

Thanks.

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:55 pm

Here's a quick review of your first 50 or so moves. If you had captured the cutting stones at move 51 with one of the two nets, you would have been well ahead.

Sevis · Post by **Sevis** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:14 am

Thank you.

A few follow-up questions:

The push on the 3-2 point seems to often by played early (by both sides) in many of my games. Is this the correct way for black to let the situation develop?

Is there any specific way to punish N16? I think my group had an easier time running because of it, but I wasn't quite sure.

I think I should be more aware of when double hanes work... I had considered it, but didn't see the double atari. Oh, and practice with nets. Hm.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:52 pm

Sevis wrote:The push on the 3-2 point seems to often by played early (by both sides) in many of my games.
Is this the correct way for black

The push on the 3-2 so early (in your games) is too slow, too small --
the joseki move is the 3rd-line 2-space jump back.
The correct thing for B to do is tenuki; for example, :b8:

in your game,
B could approach upper left corner instead.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:04 pm

Sevis wrote:Is there any specific way to punish N16?

N16 (

) is a thinner than a 1-space jump, but it's not (necessarily) a bad move.
You can jump into 3-3 (R17) directly, and compare the results against
B having made a 1-space jump instead. But it seems your :w25:

exchange
helped B get a good (efficient) result with :b24:

.

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:19 pm

Like EdLee said, you can definitely tenuki after the push at the 3-2 point. However, a white pincer at R8 next (for the bottom right) might make black uncomfortable. I might prefer as black to play at R9 next - this is a valuable extension along the side, and the R2-R9 exchange doesn't look all that profitable for white so early in the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B 19x19 board $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . 2 . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 4 8 c . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Actually, after the :b1:

-

joseki with :b7:

elsewhere, :w8:

is one of the followups white can play, after which black probably wants to respond with :b9:

to keep his group safe. Who this exchange favors depends on the rest of the board. Also, instead of :w8:

, white can instead play at 'a', after which :b8:

is common to ensure life in the corner (and also gives a large followup at 'b'). The important part is that you can see :w8:

and

have a sort of miai relationship (which implies white is not in a hurry to choose one play over the other, lest he regret his choice later). But, if you respond to :w8:

with 'c', white can play 'a' next and get both miai points while making black cramped in the corner. That is white I called :b8:

in the game submissive - by tewari, we can see black should probably not have responded in the corner to white's 3-2 move.

To your second question regarding punishing N16: it makes sense that you would ask that, but thin moves are quite often not punishable right away. Instead, thin shapes will usually come back to bite their owner over time or require their owner to spend an extra move to correct. So while the shape is thin, trying to cut it immediately is probably an overplay. Instead, wait and see what you can do later.

Life In 19x19

8 k vs 10 k, two handicap, B+R, Japanese rules, 02.07.2011

8 k vs 10 k, two handicap, B+R, Japanese rules, 02.07.2011

Re: 8 k vs 10 k, two handicap, B+R, Japanese rules, 02.07.20

Re: 8 k vs 10 k, two handicap, B+R, Japanese rules, 02.07.20

Re: 8 k vs 10 k, two handicap, B+R, Japanese rules, 02.07.20