127. ez4u vs topazg

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:25 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O 9 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:49 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm81 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , 0 . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O 9 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:19 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O 1 . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:37 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X 2 . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X 3 . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If that is OK... :blackeye:

perceval · Post by **perceval** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:57 am

@topazg

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:14 am

perceval wrote:@topazg
topazg wrote:Having just said all this, Dave is definitely going to get sente after he finishes poking around in the corner, and how he uses it will have a really big impact on what's left of the board. I haven't even bothered really counting in detail yet, as there's just too much up in the air still. However, I do at least feel like the board is close enough to be an interesting game for both sides.

topazg wrote:Ok, so standard is something like this:
.

My spider senses give me 15-20% chance of winning the game right now, so I'm not optimistic, but I haven't counted in enough detail to be more sure yet.

Your estimation of the game seemed to have drooped since W invasion of your 3 space extension, yet it doesnt seems like W really surprised your.
I wonder what happened ? did you envisage teh same situation, but now evaluate it differently ?
or did W improves substantially on your expected reading ? was there a particular unexpected move ?

... I hope it's still interesting to those observing

Yes very much you an ez4u give very interesting commentaries

Thanks to both players. This game is a blast to watch!

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:38 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X 5 . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sure, I was kind of expecting that

@perceval

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:26 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As I see it, we are now in the transition from the middle game to yose. I hoped to post quite a bit of analysis of this position, but I have been too busy at work today (currently on the lunch hour ;-)

). I am generally poor at spotting the transition when I am playing over the board. As a result, I am often chasing middle-game ideas about fighting when in fact the fights are over or have become so localized as to be of little worth. This can very quickly lead to a big negative swing in points if your opponent is more on the ball and turns to taking profits ahead of you.

There are plenty of big points left on the board. However, I think it is worthwhile for me to enclose the bottom left corner. Topazg did not enter there and instead built up great thickness in the center. I think I need the lower left in order to compete on territory. There is more to it than that however.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X B . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X W c . . . . . . d . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . a . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . e . . . . . b X 1 O X O . . | $$ | . . 3 O . . . . O , X . O X 2 X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I expect Black to answer :w1:

, probably with :b2:

because it reduces the liberties of my cutting stones above and because it cedes the fewest points here. However, the exchange gives me either "a" or "b" as future plays depending on how things develop. I then expect to play :w3:

and take the corner. In this situation, I also threaten to put the marked White stone in motion with "c" or possibly the diagonal play one point lower. Because of the previous play, Black has a lot of "strength" facing the center on the left but does not yet have good eye space, much less two distinct eyes. Note that if Black had played :b95:

(the marked stone) at "c", this possibility would not exist.

Sadly I do not get to make two moves in a row! :scratch:

So how will topazg use his sente? The other substantial issue on the board is White's center stones. Will Black be able to successfully threaten these stones, perhaps starting with the peep at "d", in order to build up the center and naturally prevent me from putting the marked stone in motion? Will Black try to strengthen the center first with some forcing move around "e"? Will Black pull something completely different out of the bag? Stay tuned! :rambo:

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:55 am

I've messed up somewhere here. I don't know how I missed that move, my kosumi I alluded to earlier was bigger than I thought.

My first thought is this atari, but it's horrible:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm97 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X W O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X 0 O X 2 X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . 1 3 4 X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 5 6 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I don't, he saves his stone, and I suffer a large local loss. I need to really think about this.

Further thoughts:

I'm now debating between these two:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . W X b X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . a . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It depends on whether I need the most help with the circled stone, or the :w96:

pair.

I've lost a good 5-10 points already compared to what I'd previously envisaged, and that makes me a bit sad

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:09 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 O X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . 7 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:31 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . | $$ | . . 8 O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:59 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . 9 . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Post by **Solomon** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:19 pm

If his estimate is correct, why not try something more bold?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O B . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . b . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . 9 a O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Do I think this will work? No, but this is the only "interesting" area remaining on the board where Black can consider a comeback (again, assuming topazg's count is correct - I'm too lazy to verify).

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:56 pm

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:38 am

After a long day of alcohol, BBQ and other relaxing but unhealthy consumables, I'm probably not in the best frame of mind to play Go, but I'm also feeling pleasantly confident about having some fun here. I've been wanting to attack for ages. I kind of expected Dave to play B4 in the lower left, leaving me with wonderful C3 and F3 aji, but he didn't. At least I have the monkey jump.

However, although the last move may seem passive, I die lots when I attack without becoming strong first (you'd have thought by now that silly proverb would have sunk in, but no, red mist is more fun). Here, I have no settled, and I now want to attack that pesky middle group:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm91 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . | $$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . | $$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X W X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . X W . . X . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . W W W . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . b . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . . . . . . . a . O X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . O X X . . | $$ | . O X . X . . 9 . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . d . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . c X O O X O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I plan on peeping at "a" with the ability to pull back to "b", and if he ataris at "c", the logical move is now "d", complicating the position and creating one big bang to finish the game with. I'm outnumbered and outgunned, but that didn't stop Henry V (apologies for bringing politics onto L19

), and it's not going to stop me either.

If I don't play fun, I lose, so I may as well lose in style and maximise my winning chances.

It's rather a shame Dave gets to move next really

Life In 19x19

127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

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Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

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Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg

Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg