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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #161 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:51 am 
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Chew Terr wrote:
Topazg:
Sure, I'll bite. You earlier mentioned considering N6, which would have been my first instinct. So, your comment sounded like you passed that up because you wanted to better support F8. Am I interpreting it correctly? Are you concerned at all about a play around L6 trying to split your groups?


The urgency on N6 isn't small, without a doubt. However, I want to give White enough issues with his cutting stone that it's hard for him to attack my big dragon. If he can't kill it, I can focus more on my own plans. Now, the moves he's got around N6 aren't as big:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X 2 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . 3 . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . 7 6 4 . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . 5 X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b13: and :b17: connect in good shape now, and him pushing over the top no longer nets him any central points, so it drops the urgency somewhat (although, if I play it, I can actually get points from it now). The other side:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . 9 . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X 2 . . . . 7 8 O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . 3 . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . 5 . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . 4 X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O . X 6 O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, looks exciting, no? Now I have a very good shot at attacking the White groups on both sides of :b17: and :b19:, and that means I may get to swallow that stone up again, as this line seems to be a bit less viable for White (he's ahead, why create a win/lose fight situation).


Kirby wrote:
@topazg:
What do you think of the balance of points, perhaps taking into account how the center is developing, compared to a few moves ago when you wrote that you felt you were 10-15 points behind.

How do you feel about the game progression since then?


It's difficult. I think it's more like 5-10 at the moment, but there's so much hugely up in the air, and some really huge yose moves, that it's hard to be very sure about it. Certainly, I'm trying for a strategy that keeps the biggest swing value remaining in big areas, because that's my best chance of suddenly picking 10 points up on an error from Dave. I've clearly suffered a local loss letting him get that ponnuki, but at the same time I've neutralised the middle completely, and it feels like that's enough compensation. I have a feeling we're both about to start killing each other, and that could end the game, but at least it gives me a half chance at pulling something out of the bag.

Big yose:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | e X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . d . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X 2 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . 3 . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O . a . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | c . . . . . O . . b . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I really want all of these if possible, then I'm winning :P

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #162 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:43 am 
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Some thoughts:

Ok, here are my yose thoughts, in order from the one I want most, to the one I want least. None of them are small:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | e X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . f . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X g . |
$$ | . . . . . x . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . x . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O . b . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | d . . . . . O . . a . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


"a" is just huge, and we both have a reasonable chance of taking it in sente. "b" is relatively huge,and I may well give White sente if he takes it first. "c" may well be big enough, as if White ignores it I get to peep and jump with the "x" points for further sente reductions. "d" isn't small, but White will play B3, I'll pull back, and White can then take sente, so it needs to wait. "e" isn't small either, but I'll ignore it, as White can only make the further capture in gote, and two gote moves for that isn't big enough right now. "f" is fairly small, but very sente for White, so it's worth a few reverse sente points, and "g" seems the biggest gote move.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #163 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:51 am 
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@topazg:
How has playing ez4u compared to your initial expectations? In retrospect, did he play any moves that you found particularly surprising?

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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #164 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:55 am 
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I'm not sure I can agree with this estimation. While 'a' is certainly big, I feel like it's only sente for white. I guess how big it is depends on how this fight goes, and what the status of N5 becomes. Because of the followups, I almost feel like 'c' is the biggest of the options listed. Also, I think he's not counting O9, as it's more midgame than yose.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #165 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:00 pm 
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Chew Terr wrote:
I'm not sure I can agree with this estimation. While 'a' is certainly big, I feel like it's only sente for white. I guess how big it is depends on how this fight goes, and what the status of N5 becomes. Because of the followups, I almost feel like 'c' is the biggest of the options listed. Also, I think he's not counting O9, as it's more midgame than yose.


I also was not sure how big 'a' was for black.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #166 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:05 pm 
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@observers:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | e X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . f . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X g . |
$$ | . . . . . x . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . x . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O . b . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | d . . . . . O . . a . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


With the shape above, 'b' is usually a good move to ensure connection between the two groups. So just glancing at the shape, 'b' seems like the correct move. But in this case, why not simply capture the stone?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | e X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . f . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X g . |
$$ | . . . . . x . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . x . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O 5 2 4 . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | d . . . . . O . . a . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If P6 were already filled, maybe it'd be a different story, but...

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #167 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:19 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
@topazg:
How has playing ez4u compared to your initial expectations? In retrospect, did he play any moves that you found particularly surprising?


He has the wonderful dan ability to take leads without doing anything spectacular :P

To be honest, his play on the right side was inspiring, but apart from that, he's just done lots of solid, good, sensible moves. I wish I could make the board look so promising doing that :D

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Offline ez4u
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #168 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:38 pm 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O 4 . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My targets are unchanged.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #169 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:42 pm 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 5 . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O 4 . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I just have to play here, or I die I think. Now, what on Earth do I do with those 3 sad stones :(
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Offline ez4u
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #170 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:10 pm 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . 6 X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here we go! I have no real thoughts about this fight yet. It depends too much on how topazg reacts.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #171 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:40 pm 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . 7 . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No real deep thought into this one, other than "wheeee, here we go again!"
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Offline ez4u
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #172 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:12 pm 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X 8 O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At the moment I am waiting to react in whatever direction is appropriate. Black has to give something up in this fight and it is not clear what he will be able to take in return. There are various weaknesses in White's position, as there are in Black's.

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- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Offline EdLee
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Post #173 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:25 pm 
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(For beginners, mostly.) Note the local broken shape for B and how it may affect this fight.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . @ B O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , B @ O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #174 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:41 am 
Tengen
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On further analysis, I appear to be screwed. I'd really missed Dave's extension's implications:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . 6 . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O 4 . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . 5 . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . , . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . , X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X , O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'd originally intended this :b15:, but :w16: appears to kill my big dragon. I was doing a fair amount of reading on White playing it as :w14:, but I figured this was enough:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm115 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . 8 5 . 9 O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O 7 6 W . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . 1 3 . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O 2 4 . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, because my :b15: and :b17: in this diagram are necessary, that means that his :w14: simply works when he extends where he did, and I must defend against it, and can only defend from one direction.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm119 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . 9 . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O O . . . 7 8 O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . 3 1 X 5 6 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . 4 2 O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is basically my only chance, but one of us is going to die, and the odds are surprisingly high that it's me. If it is, I'll resign, if it's him, he will, so we may as well play through to the point I can actually read the game :)
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #175 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:37 am 
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This phrase cracks me up:

topazg wrote:
On further analysis, I appear to be screwed.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #176 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:07 am 
Tengen
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I've only just noticed you've moved - sorry about that!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . 9 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


"Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die."

Actually, I'm not sure another push is sente, but that's ok, as the three stones are safe anyway:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm121 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O O . . . 3 . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X 4 X 0 . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X 5 6 8 9 . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . 7 X X 1 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . W O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm121 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . 9 . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O O 4 1 5 X . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X O 6 O 2 3 O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X X O O X 7 O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . 8 X X X X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . O O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Wheeeee!
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #177 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:31 am 
Oza
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To me, topazg's diagrams look good for B. Am I missing something? Is he missing something?
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #178 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:34 am 
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Some further thoughts:

Can he resist my peep like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm121 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O O . . . 3 . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . 4 . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . X X 1 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . W O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Should I play this first, regardless of whether he can or not?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm121 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , 4 . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O O 3 . . 5 . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . X X 1 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . W O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sadly, this is deep, and complex, and my brain hurts. Will see later I guess :)
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #179 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:36 am 
Gosei
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jts wrote:
To me, topazg's diagrams look good for B. Am I missing something? Is he missing something?

I think it's perhaps overly optimistic, as kind of a 'best case scenario' kind of thing. More likely, Dave will resist one or both peeps, and the situation will escalate. I think Topazg couldn't show every possible resistance, so he showed the less complicated 'main line'.


edit: Topazg's added explanation basically summarizes what I posted above. =D

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Offline ez4u
 Post subject: Re: 127. ez4u vs topazg
Post #180 Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:46 pm 
Oza
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm111 Prisoners: :b2: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . X . X O O . O O O . |
$$ | . O X X O . X . . . . . X O . X O X . |
$$ | . O O O O . O O . , X . X O . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . X O . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . . O O O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O O X . X X O O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | O . O X X X O O X . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . O . O . . . 9 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . 0 O X O O X O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O , X O O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In one sense :b19: seemed natural. However, I think that White has gained a lot of territory by capturing the G6 stone (in exchange for the F9 stone) and now gripping the L4 stone. In addition, my N19 stones are now connected along the bottom. The fight in the center looks tricky for both sides but White has forcing plays against the left center group around J12, so I am feeling more confident here. If possible, I think Black should have waited to settle the question of pulling out the N6 stones or the stone on L4.

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- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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