I suggest we continue the game with sgf, it's a lot easier.
[sgf-full](;CA[hz-gb-2312]SZ[19]AP[MultiGo:4.4.4]MULTIGOGM[1]
;B[qd];W[dd];B[oc];W[qo];B[dp];W[pq];B[kq];W[cn];B[fp];W[bp];B[cq];W[ck];B[qj];W[jd]
(;B[cf]LB[cc:A]C[Can we agree to continue with EdLee's move here? The only other option I see here is A, and that doesn't look promising to me.])
(;B[cc];W[cd];B[dc];W[ec];B[eb];W[fc];B[fb];W[gc];B[bd];W[be];B[bc];W[cf]
(;B[oj];W[fj]C[This seems unacceptable.])
(;B[dj];W[dk];B[fj];W[ek];B[fh];W[gl]C[To me this seems better for white.])))[/sgf-full]
Go Back - Game 2
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nagano
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
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cyclops
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
There is a Many Universes theory in physics saying that at every instant every universe splits into every possible future. All these universe then lives next to each other. Well I am not going to be stubborn and split the game into two parallel ones. Ed's reasons now make me feel at ease with R13.
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cyclops
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
nagano wrote:I suggest we continue the game with sgf, it's a lot easier.
OK, though I am not a big fan of your preferred method.
To speed up I added the 3 "obvious" next moves. I am not sure playing sequences is acceptable in Goback. So if you dislike pls go back.
[sgf-full]http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1020[/sgf-full]
As a child I always played chess against myself. Mostly I won.
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nagano
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
I agree with that sequence, but will leave it for others to object if so desired. Certainly other moves can be considered.
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
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topazg
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nagano
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
@topazg Interesting move, certainly worth considering. How would you respond after the diagonal contact?
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
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perceval
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
it is already super hard to know what is the actual position... 
Topazg you are proposing an alternative to the game, but not an actual "go back" is that correct ?
Topazg you are proposing an alternative to the game, but not an actual "go back" is that correct ?
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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topazg
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
These were the moves I'd been considering:
The second one is kinda awkward though.
@perceval: I guess one of the GoBack's got rejected on the basis of this general sequence being unacceptable - so this _might_ trigger a correction, even though that hadn't really been my intent when I posted.
The second one is kinda awkward though.
@perceval: I guess one of the GoBack's got rejected on the basis of this general sequence being unacceptable - so this _might_ trigger a correction, even though that hadn't really been my intent when I posted.
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
I mostly agree with that sequence, but as white in both cases I would double hane, and in the first diagram I would play black 33 a point closer to the weaker group. I think white solidifies too much territory then.
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
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topazg
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
nagano wrote:I mostly agree with that sequence, but as white in both cases I would double hane, and in the first diagram I would play black 33 a point closer to the weaker group. I think white solidifies too much territory then.
Hmmm, double hane does look better in the first one. However, I would still rather take Black here:
In the second one, there's no double hane:
If White's going to have a wall like that, neutralising it with a living group and hopefully some central influence feels fine - Black's position in the top right is very good, the lower left looks fine, and White's lost the majority of his development potential - he's got cash, but it doesn't have huge prospects for becoming a lot more cash - am I mis-evaluating here?
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nagano
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
I'm sorry, I should have clarified, and I looked too quickly at your second diagram, assuming it was starting with the same move. What I meant was:
For that matter, I don't think the attachment works at all:
I think this is too hard to deal with.
For that matter, I don't think the attachment works at all:
I think this is too hard to deal with.
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
nagano wrote:I'm sorry, I should have clarified, and I looked too quickly at your second diagram, assuming it was starting with the same move. What I meant was:
Ah, yes, no problem, I don't Black can extend in this direction at all.
nagano wrote:For that matter, I don't think the attachment works at all:
I think this is too hard to deal with.
I agree, this does look severe.
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cyclops
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
perceval wrote:it is already super hard to know what is the actual position...
Topazg you are proposing an alternative to the game, but not an actual "go back" is that correct ?
Time to decide. Do we proceed from here or is there someone (Topasz?) going back?
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nagano
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Re: Go Back - Game 2
[sgf-full](;CA[hz-gb-2312]SZ[19]AP[MultiGo:4.4.4]MULTIGOGM[1]
;B[qd];W[dd];B[oc];W[qo];B[dp];W[pq];B[kq];W[cn];B[fp];W[bp];B[cq];W[ck];B[qj];W[jd]
(;B[cf]LB[cc:A]C[nagano\:Can we agree to continue with EdLee's move here? The only other option I see here is A, and that doesn't look promising to me.]
;W[ce])
(;B[cc];W[cd];B[dc];W[ec];B[eb];W[fc];B[fb];W[gc];B[bd];W[be];B[bc];W[cf]
(;B[oj];W[fj]C[nagano\: This seems unacceptable.])
(;B[dj];W[dk];B[fj];W[ek];B[fh];W[gl]C[nagano\: To me this seems better for white.])))[/sgf-full]
I believe the other path was intended to be a side note.
;B[qd];W[dd];B[oc];W[qo];B[dp];W[pq];B[kq];W[cn];B[fp];W[bp];B[cq];W[ck];B[qj];W[jd]
(;B[cf]LB[cc:A]C[nagano\:Can we agree to continue with EdLee's move here? The only other option I see here is A, and that doesn't look promising to me.]
;W[ce])
(;B[cc];W[cd];B[dc];W[ec];B[eb];W[fc];B[fb];W[gc];B[bd];W[be];B[bc];W[cf]
(;B[oj];W[fj]C[nagano\: This seems unacceptable.])
(;B[dj];W[dk];B[fj];W[ek];B[fh];W[gl]C[nagano\: To me this seems better for white.])))[/sgf-full]
I believe the other path was intended to be a side note.
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
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cyclops
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Re: Go Back - Game 2 move 17
[sgf-full]http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1029[/sgf-full]
Otherwise white will play there and have a favourable exchange.
Otherwise white will play there and have a favourable exchange.
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- goback2_17a.sgf
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