Stuck at 2D

[Spezi]

Hi,
it took me 1 year to reach EGF 2D (from 30K). I simply read a lot of books (like "Attack and Defense", "In the beginning", "Lessons in the fundamental of Go", "Tesuji", "The Endgame") and played a lot of games. I read a book, learned new things, improved. That was like 3 years ago. Since then I didn't improve at all, still 2D. I can't find any books that make me think "ah, learned something new, cool". Solving tsumego doesn't seem to imrove my game, too. Did a lot of those. Not looking at the solution, solve the next one after I'm sure I have it right. Didn't feel like I improved at all, not even my reading ability. From the book "Tesuji", for example, I improved a lot (maybe the best book I read so far). But reading more advanced tesuji books seem like a waste of time (dictionaries and problem books). Don't feel any improvement. Replaying professional games doesn't seem to help me. And playing games seems pointless, too. I didn't learn any new things I can apply, after all. Playing games feels different from playing them when I was learning new things. It's not like I stopped playing or reading for the last 3 years. I simply didn't improve. I can't find any books that teach me any more things. And I don't think I ever improved by solving problems. When solving problesm I apply what I already know, nothing new. Till I was 2D I never did any tsumego or replay professional games. Only read books and played games. It's not that I didn't play games, read books, solved life and death problems or replayed professional games in the last 3 years since it seemed pointless. Did it all, a lot, since I want to improve. But now I'm thinking of givin up. So I'm clueless on what to do. Any advice or book recommendation?
Thank you

[Kirby]

...And playing games seems pointless, too.

Why is it pointless?

...
Did it all, a lot, since I want to improve. But now I'm thinking of givin up. So I'm clueless on what to do. Any advice or book recommendation?
Thank you

What is the reason you want to improve?

[Spezi]

Why is it pointless?

There's nothing new, it's like it's always the same game. Placing some stones, feeling unsatisfied because I played like detritus and it was the same again. I didn't learn anything new I can apply to my game.

What is the reason you want to improve?

Simply want to be better. And I want to know more about what I play. When I play it feels like I'm a beginner. So I guess playing would be more fun if I were better.

[Kirby]

Why is it pointless?

There's nothing new, it's like it's always the same game. Placing some stones, feeling unsatisfied because I played like detritus and it was the same again. I didn't learn anything new I can apply to my game.

What is the reason you want to improve?

Simply want to be better. And I want to know more about what I play. When I play it feels like I'm a beginner. So I guess playing would be more fun if I were better.

I guess, if you feel unsatisfied with the moves you are playing, maybe you can take your time and find a move that you are satisfied with before playing it(?)...

[dedroid]

try taking a lesson with a stronger player, they can point out what you're weak at and you can work on it. the fun part in that is finding out why you were weak at it, and improving.

[Bantari]

Why is it pointless?

There's nothing new, it's like it's always the same game. Placing some stones, feeling unsatisfied because I played like detritus and it was the same again. I didn't learn anything new I can apply to my game.

What is the reason you want to improve?

Simply want to be better. And I want to know more about what I play. When I play it feels like I'm a beginner. So I guess playing would be more fun if I were better.

It seems to me that you don't really care about Go, just enjoy the feeling of improving.
Here is my advice to you: switch to chess! Then, once you reach a level past which you actually have to work harder than you are willing to to improve, switch to checkers... or bridge... or poker... or tic-tac-toe... you get my point, I believe. This way - you will always improve and always have fun and games will never be 'pointless' to you.

Wish you best!

[topazg]

Is there any way you can get satisfaction from the game without continually improving? If you want improvement, why not take up a new hobby that you're a beginner at, and appreciate fast progress in that?

Alternatively, if Go is what you really want to play, maybe start teaching others and getting satisfaction from their improvement? Or, play to enjoy the game regardless of whether you ever get better or not - if you can (I'm assuming you find this challenging?)

[Numsgil]

I think most amateurs need professional guidance to "unlearn" the bad habits that hamstring their progress. So I'd look in to lessons. If nothing else a pro would be able to point out what you're weak at and give you some ideas about what to do to improve.

Also, problems really are indispensable if you want to train up your reading, which is the basis of high level play. Even (especially) top professionals constantly do problems. There just isn't a substitute.

Also, what time settings are your games usually? If you play a lot of blitz, you should stretch yourself and play longer games, where deeper reading is required. If you play a lot of slow games, you should try blitz to hone your intuition.

Last, purely out of curiosity, how many games did you play in the first year? It's taken me about 1300 games to get to KGS 3k. I think most people take about 1000-2000 games to reach dan level (depending on the amount of study vs. play and other factors).

[Spezi]

I don't plan on starting playing other games; played chess, but I think Go is more fun. So it's not like playing Go without improving is no fun at all (otherwise I wouldn't have done so the last 3 years without improving), it's just less fun. I did take some lessons, but without results. But not from a professional; I don't have much money. I think if I had a better understanding of Go it would be more fun. Getting better at some random games wouldn't make me happy. I don't plan on teaching Go. In my opinion I understand it too little to teach someone. Teaching someone who could profit by having me teach him could improve faster by simply playing games and reading the books I told about (one reason I listed them) (in my opinion) (from my experience). I don't always play the same time setting, differs a lot.
edit:How many games did I play to reach 2D? When a year has 365 days, maybe 365? Not sure

[Solomon]

Fly to Japan/Korea/China and undergo insei/yeonguseng/yuansheng training, it's the only way.

[Dusk Eagle]

If you're truly stuck, I would look into getting a professional teacher to help you. They'll be able to point out your shortcomings best and help you improve. Getting teaching and doing tsumego seems like a pretty good formula. You said you've done both of these and didn't improve, so may I ask how long you kept each of them up?

By the way, I completely understand the desire to keep improving at Go. I share the same goal, and I honestly wouldn't find Go interesting if I knew I could never improve past where I am at right now.

[Spezi]

Not sure about how long I got teached. Maybe like 20-30 times.

[Bantari]

I don't plan on starting playing other games; played chess, but I think Go is more fun. So it's not like playing Go without improving is no fun at all (otherwise I wouldn't have done so the last 3 years without improving), it's just less fun. I did take some lessons, but without results. But not from a professional; I don't have much money. I think if I had a better understanding of Go it would be more fun. Getting better at some random games wouldn't make me happy. I don't plan on teaching Go. In my opinion I understand it too little to teach someone. Teaching someone who could profit by having me teach him could improve faster by simply playing games and reading the books I told about (one reason I listed them) (in my opinion) (from my experience). I don't always play the same time setting, differs a lot.
edit:How many games did I play to reach 2D? When a year has 365 days, maybe 365? Not sure

Well, then...
Everyone reaches a level past which we do not improve.
I don't know if you reached yours... but if not now, it will happen at some point.

I think its best to get comfortable with this idea...

Other than this, i do not have a good advice. Everybody improves differently, and everybody needs different things to improve. If there was a universal formula, we would all be pros now, and life would be VERY boring! The only general rule I can think of is that - if you have fun, you tend to improve, and if you don't then you don't. So the first step for you would be to figure out why you stopped having fun and you see your games as pointless. If it is all about improving, see my previous post. If there is more to it for you, figure out what else is missing.

Hope this helps.

[Numsgil]

Do you play online or just at a local club? What sort of style do you regularly play? Online play is good for exposure to lots of really different play styles. Playing with a different style than you're used to is good for stretching yourself for similar reasons.

For instance, if you normally play Moyo style, playing territorially instead is quite eye opening.

You can also post a sample game where you lost. There are enough strong people here that we can probably post some ideas; maybe some of them will be new to you.

[Spezi]

I play online most of the time. I don't play a particular style; what happens, happens. If playing for moyo seems best, I play for moyo; if playing teritorially seems best, I play territorially... Might upload the next game I play. But don't have time for playing right now.