How to respond to the most basic situations?

Zarxrax · #1

I'm trying to learn to play go.
I have gone through a couple of games on kgs, but I am mostly trying to practice some 9x9 games on the "igowin" software until I get a little better understanding of the game.

I've been reading about some of the basic moves and strategies and stuff, life and death and such, and have been working lots and lots of basic go problems.

But here's the thing. All of the problems that I see have these situations where there are already a lot of stones set up. In such situations, I suppose both white and black are pretty evenly matched.

However, in my actual games, I'm having trouble even getting to a point where I can utilize any of the strategies that I see in problems. My opponent usually gets his stones in a good formation before I even realize it, and then it seems like there is little that I can do.

When my opponent plays just ONE stone... how do I respond to this? Because on his next turn, he will probably be playing something to strengthen that. And at that point, I'm already falling behind. I guess what I'm saying, is how do I keep my opponent from building up good shapes, starting from when he only has one or two pieces in an area?

jts · #2

Play a game as thoughtfully as you can, and then post the result in the "Game Analysis" section for comments.

And keep playing humans! Some people find that it's more fun that way ;-)

topazg · #3

If a lot of what you are reading is based on stones hitting each other, and fights generally, and you can't see how that applies to the board in front of view ... assume it doesn't apply, and try to think of moves that make you points. At the end of the game, the one with the most territory wins, so always have that as the bottom line behind the purpose of every move you make

judicata · #4

I second what jts said. Also, watch a few games from stronger players. It is hard to give you an answer in the abstract, but keep in mind that you cannot kill everything (unless your opponent is much weaker than you) and, in a typical even game, most groups will not die. I think it is fair to say go isn't a game of complete domination, but of balance. This doesn't mean you don't want to control the board and defeat your opponent--just don't expect to destroy everything they create. In a 9x9 game at your level, focus on keeping your groups safe (by making eye space, staying connected, etc.).

Keep asking questions, and best of luck!

hyperpape · #5

A lot of the game of Go is about balance. Each side gets some of what it wants, and you'll get into trouble if you try and make sure your opponent never makes a strong shape. At some point, a fight arises, because one side wants more than the other can let him have.

There are games that start with violent fighting, but they are not the rule. It may be that you are trying too hard to keep your opponent from getting anything.

Here are some examples of these ideas:

Some ordinary opening moves.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Some ordinary opening moves. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is a common opening. Each side stakes a claim to one corner. Then White splits the right side because Black would be very happy to play there and lay a claim to the entire right side. Now a fight may start after Black approaches :w6:

, but it may be settled peacefully.

A joseki.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c A joseki. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . 2 . . 6 | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is a joseki--a common pattern that may be useful for both players. Each side comes away with a stable group that is not yet easy to attack. Each side has the potential for some territory (Black has somewhat more potential--he played here first).

EdLee · #6

Zarxrax, welcome to Go and L19!

Zarxrax wrote:

When my opponent plays just ONE stone... how do I respond to this?

There is no general answer to this. There are literally infinite possibilities (for all practical purposes).
This is one reason Go is so amazing and difficult. For now, try to finish 100 games as quickly
as you can -- 9x9, 13x13, 19x19 are all OK, but the smaller boards will save you some time.
After that, once in a while post a serious game here for review. Good luck and enjoy! :mrgreen:

HermanHiddema · #7

1. On boards larger than 9x9, playing in an empty corner is never wrong. 4-4 or 3-4 are fine points to play. Playing on an empty side, on the third or fourth line, some distance away from stones, is also usually fine.

2. In the corner, or near the side, it is generally fine to approach at a knight's move distance away from a stone on the 4th line:

approaches

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ approaches $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . . O . $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . 1 . . $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . . . .[/go]

3. If your opponent attaches to your stone, and has no help near, attack:

attaches,

attacks

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B attaches, attacks $$ . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . $$ . . 1 2 . . $$ . . O . . . $$ . . . . . . $$ . . . . . .[/go]

4. If your opponent attaches to your stone, and has help near, pullback/defend:

attaches,

pulls back

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B attaches, pulls back $$ . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . $$ . . 1 X . . $$ . 2 O . . . $$ . . . . . . $$ . . . . . .[/go]

5. Play the vital point of the diagonal when available

Black attached, you defend, :w2:

is the vital point of black's diagonal.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Black attached, you defend, is the vital point of black's diagonal. $$ . . . . . . $$ . . . X . . $$ . . 1 . . . $$ . . O 2 . . $$ . . . . . . $$ . . . . . .[/go]

6. Cross-cut? Extend!

crosscut,

extends, could also be any of the circled points. Try to set up a ladder.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B crosscut, extends, could also be any of the circled points. Try to set up a ladder. $$ . . . . . . $$ . . . C . . $$ . . 1 2 C . $$ . C O 3 . . $$ . . 4 . . . $$ . . . . . .[/go]

7. Don't play atari too much.

defends solidly. The circled ataris are tempting, but probably wrong.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B defends solidly. The circled ataris are tempting, but probably wrong. $$ . . . . . . $$ . . C 3 . . $$ . C 1 2 . . $$ . . O 4 . . $$ . . . . . . $$ . . . . . .[/go]

8. Don't know what to do? Play elsewhere! Probably your opponent, if he is of your level, doesn't know what to do either, and even if he does, you're getting something elsewhere.

emeraldemon · #8

Look at this:
[url]
http://senseis.xmp.net/?BasicInstinct[/url]

Zarxrax · #9

Thanks for the ideas everyone. I've mostly been playing right beside or diagonally from the opponents piece whenever they move to a place that I don't like. But I guess that's a losing battle when I try that, right?

That basic instinct page looks especially useful. I'll study everything on there and then try a few more games.

Joaz Banbeck · **#10**

Try using the advice you just received, then post a game in the 'game analysis' sub forum.

And welcome to L19. :salute:

Bill Spight · **#11**

Zarxrax wrote:

I've mostly been playing right beside or diagonally from the opponents piece whenever they move to a place that I don't like. But I guess that's a losing battle when I try that, right?

Well, maybe.

What happens when you make such plays is that you get into a contact fight. The end result of a contact fight is usually that both sides are strengthened. If your aim is to attack, that is not the result you seek. So attacks are usually at a little distance. And as you get better, you will be able to mount attacks on a large scale.

One thing that I think you would find helpful here is the Malkovich games. In them people explain what they are trying to do, and other people make comments. They provide an opportunity to get into the heads of experienced go players.

Bill Spight · **#12**

Here is an interesting game, a masterpiece, in fact.

I have already posted it with TV sportscaster-like comments, but I have added several comments aimed at beginners. The earlier comments are marked with ***, the beginner comments with *. You may find it helpful.

Zarxrax · **#13**

thanks!

Koroviev · **#14**

The sgf in Bill's great post is now broken.

Bill Spight · **#15**

Koroviev wrote:

The sgf in Bill's great post is now broken.

I changed sgf-full to sgf. OK now.

But shouldn't sgf-full still work?

Dusk Eagle · **#16**

The error was probably related to how we recently changed sgf-full to be the default sgf viewer. See http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4666. If you were to re-edit your post back to using sgf-full it will work (but there's no real reason to).

How to respond to the most basic situations?

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