126. EdLee vs Loons

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Loons
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Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

After trying to read a good result, I have a conclusion.

Everything is complicated and it's hard to be sure something is bad.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

First feeling is the simple block... :study:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . 1 X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

In retrospect...
...I'm now guessing when Loons played :b49:, he considered (a) and (b) miai.
Of course I considered :w50: at (a), but I missed :b51:(a) :P.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm49
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . 1 . b . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Now pondering another obvious candidate, the kosumi:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . W . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
(For beginners, mostly?) In general, the large knight has weaknesses at (a) and (b),
so the above kosumi :w1: together with :wc: would hit both spots.
However, general shape ideas are necessary but not sufficient --
we must take into account the specific local and global consequences.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . a . X . . .
$$ . . . X . b . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Just being silly... :batman:
If we were playing Pente, I'd have (a) and (b) miai to win;
but Loons won a long time ago with :b47:: :mrgreen:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm47
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W . X . . . O B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . W . . X O O B O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . W . . O X 1 X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . W . . O B X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . b . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm52 Prisoners: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Let's play Pente! :twisted:
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

General ideas-- Variation 1:
( if :w52: at (a) instead, I cannot jump to :w2: )
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . 2 . O a X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Variation 2:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . 1 O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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Loons
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Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons

Post by Loons »

Naturally, Ed plays what I had all-but-convinced-myself he wouldn't play. I guess this leaves me with the least eye-space on top, but leaves aji (like a possibly useful forcing move at 'a' (and then even c would be forcing, pretty sure)) compared to J18 (I think).

90% sure I'm going to two space jump to G14 and use white's cut aji to walk out.

I've also decided I probably want to answer x with y here, feels very solid.

I'm speculating whether this order of moves has a difference to playing the jump to G14 first :P. (And also making more checks for pitfalls!)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm53 Prisoners: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O b B . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X a O d . B O O X W . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . c O . . O X X X W . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . 1 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . y X x . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Edit;
PS: The marked exchange seems to have been good for white (similar territory, similar amount of aji maybe). I'm not entirely confident my result in top left is going to be even compensation.
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Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons

Post by Loons »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm53 Prisoners: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Eh, this just tickled my fancy at the moment. Anyway, while I'm sure the current situation is pretty exciting, we're going to do something else. Don't worry, I think H17 is sente against life so I'm not really running with a knight's move.

Many Major Mistakes: A Recap So Far
[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[EdLee]PB[Loons]
;B[pd]
;W[dd]
;B[pp]
;W[dp]
;B[fq]
;W[cn]
;B[dr]
;W[cq]
;B[iq]
;W[qn]
;B[np]
;W[rp]
;B[ql]
;W[qq]
;B[qo]
;W[ro]
;B[pn]
;W[or]
;B[rn]
;W[mq]TR[mp]C[I thought black's local followup was going to be big somehow and sometime. I was wrong.]
;B[pf]C[I think this was a surprisingly large mistake. Top and C14 are not miai.]
;W[jd]
;B[cf]
;W[df]
;B[dg]
;W[ef]
;B[ce]TR[cd]C[Given I decided eventually to take gote over here anyway, I should have chosen a more interesting joseki.]
;W[cd]
;B[cj]
;W[qh]TR[oh]C[I think just responding (cap) now may have been better.]
;B[lc]
;W[ke]
;B[jb]TR[oh]C[Black top is becoming thin, considering R12. Maybe still the cap.]
;W[pc]
;B[oc]C[(Remembering black has become thin, white is going to get something here)]
;W[qd]
;B[qe]TR[pe]C[My initially planeed move at least wouldn't have had the game's weakness.]
;W[od]
;B[pe]
;W[nc]
;B[ob]
;W[nb]C[this exchange really favored white, even considering R13 was tenukied earlier.]
;B[nd]
;W[md]
;B[oe]
;W[ne]
;B[od]
;W[mc]
;B[gc]C[Who knows. It looked ok?]
;W[ic]
;B[ec]
;W[hb]C[Not yet clear how black has gained from sacrificing K18 stones.])[/sgf-full]
Why is it that I can not get any sgf uploads to work except by copying their text...

Addendum: If Ed has made any mistakes yet, I have not caught them.


My mistakes haven't even been hard to spot. I feel like I just haven't been bringing my A game. I'll try to improve on that for the next two hundred moves.
Last edited by Loons on Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by EdLee »

Wheee! Interesting. :study:
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

First feeling is exploit the marked weak spots... :study:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . C . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . C . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Var 1. B connects:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . O 8 X . . . O X .
$$ | . . . . X . X 6 O . . X O O X O
$$ | . . O O . . 4 3 7 O . . O X X X
$$ | . . X . . . 1 2 . . O . . O X X
$$ | . . X O O . 5 X . . . . . . . X
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Var 2. B ponnuki:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . O 7 X . . . O X .
$$ | . . . . X . X 6 O 9 . X O O X O
$$ | . . O O . . 4 3 8 O . . O X X X
$$ | . . X . . . 1 2 . . O . . O X X
$$ | . . X O O . 5 X . . . . . . . X
$$ | . . . X . . . 0 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Var 3. B connects + ponnuki:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 9 8 W 6 X . . . O X .
$$ | . . . . X 7 X 4 O . . X O O X O
$$ | . . O O . . 3 5 . O . . O X X X
$$ | . . X . . . 1 2 . . O . . O X X
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Var 4. Broken shape for W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . O 5 X . . . O X .
$$ | . . . . X . X 4 O . . X O O X O
$$ | . . O O . . 3 6 . O . . O X X X
$$ | . . X . . . 1 2 . . O . . O X X
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Post by EdLee »

53.jpg
53.jpg (66.43 KiB) Viewed 8461 times
An interesting moment. :study:
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Post by EdLee »

Var 5. Another crazy idea is this funny empty triangle --
just take the cash at (a) and (b) first, and let B deal with the weak group.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . a . . . . . O . X . b . O X .
$$ | . . . 1 X . X . O . . X O O X O
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . O X X X
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . O X X
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm54 Prisoners: :w1:
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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