Toothless attacking?

Toge · Post by **Toge** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:50 am

I've lost the past 5 games by over 20 points each. Defending is much easier than attacking, so I'm often at loss trying to figure out effective attacks. Go is a game about fighting and not territory-building after all.

Here's the my most recent game. I added some comments in it.

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:06 am

I really hate the sequence starting with W28. M16 seems like a horrible exchange: leaning on the thing you want to attack amplifies your own weaknesses on both sides. The other angle play is a lot better, no? And then you (understandably) pause to defend the other side, letting black get two moves in a row against your invasion... I think the invasion looked reasonable but not that followup. By move 45 I feel like resigning as white (I wouldn't actually do it, but that's how far behind I'd feel).

I agree H3 looks much better for W10.

But I guess you're stronger than me now, so take with a grain of salt...

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:23 am

20: Why not C18?

26: This makes me queasy. Most of the right side is influenced by black, and you have a semi-safe group over against the side, and now you start another group. This is begging to be the victim of a double attack.

32-40: I don't get this at all. You are forcing black to create the fist of god precisely where you do not want it.

46: Why even think of saving these stones with H16 or K16 or any other move? What is the meaning of these stones? They make no territory for you, they do not cut black. Abandon them, and hope that he wastes time going after them like a lizard's tail while you make your escape like the lizard.

49-56: Ok, you got some eye space, but you forced him to gain more strength. Just 48 at P10 would make you just as alive.

62: Abandon those stones.

Overall, this game reminds me of some 50's escapes-from-the lab monster movie, where they don't take it seriously enough, and it gobbles things and becomes stronger. By the time they really recognize how dangerous their creation has become, it is too late.

Bantari · Post by **Bantari** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:58 am

Toge wrote:I've lost the past 5 games by over 20 points each. Defending is much easier than attacking, so I'm often at loss trying to figure out effective attacks. Go is a game about fighting and not territory-building after all.

I don't think your last sentence is necessarily correct, but nevermind.

Here are some general remarks about what I think is your problem. I am not going to go into move-my-move commentary, other can do it better, I am sure.

I think that your problem is that you misunderstand what attacking means.
You attack like a kyu player - with the expectation to kill. But this is not what attack means in Go, at least not for dan players. At that level you not often get to kill something decisive, or at least - you should not be counting on that. You attack to gain strength or gain points or remove your own weaknesses. This is the basics. In the game you show, many of your moves could only be justified by expectation of killing a group, and this should not be so. Think about it.

I think that once you ask yourself this:
I don't expect to kill, but I still need to get something out of the attack. What can I gain?
And then you look around, evaluate the position before and after attack, and compare the advantages you accumulated - in terms of points, prospective points, or thickness. Sometimes you attack to prevent attacks or strengthen your own stones.

Simply stated - I seriously do not remember when I last time attacked with expectation of killing - unless I was playing a non-dan player. Sure - I killed anyhow, but this was just because of mistakes and a bonus, not the basic assumption.

One more thing:
Often if there is not much to gain from attacks, it is better not to attack, and patiently leave the weakness for later - it will pay off! If in no other way that eventually he will have to waste a move to defend it. Probably the most common way to 'use' an opponent's weakness is that you can play more loosely and he cannot attack to strong or his own weaknesses will get exposed. This means you can approach closer, make more points, and so on. If you just attack blindly - all you accomplish is to strengthen him and remove his weaknesses - and this in turn weakens you. The game you showed was a perfect example of that.

Go is often the game of patience and calculation and balancing small advantages, not of blindly attacking.
Although attacking is more fun, I agree with that.

I think that if you understand this and start thinking about attacking more maturely, your strength will jump up by a stone or two.
Think like a dan player!

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:54 pm

What do you think of :w26:

...K15 ? It cuts black's threatened connect-under while looking at growing your left. I wouldn't not play it because it looks like the expected move. After all, top in the game did seem a source of grief.

Capturing D18 earlier seemed like your sente, though I guess you took sente twice from sacrificing these stones...

A decision I would have made differently had I been playing, I would have chosen to live with O3 via Q3 attachment instead of 3-3 territory. You did get many, many points for yourself here though. I guess it was a hard game after top.

"Go is, after all, a game of connecting stones, not surrounding territory..."

(Had to add the version of that proverb I say)

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:18 am

Loons wrote:What do you think of ...K15 ?

That would probably have been my move, FWIW

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