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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #421 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:48 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm239 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X . O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . 1 . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X . . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Seems the simplest and best way to stay connected. The alternative was N11, but then I'd have to play here next move anyway after white protects - so it's better for me to play M11 straight away, just in case I later get the opportunity to play at N13 myself.

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #422 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:49 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm240 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X . O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . 1 . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X . . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


this is good shape

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #423 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:13 pm 
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KGS: robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm241 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X 1 O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X . . . . X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Hmm, 1-point gote eh? But, looking around, I guess that's really what we're down to? *sigh* So this is a 1-point gote of my own. Well, reverse sente actually ;-) As would have been J10 or H8.

I'm too lazy to do a proper count myself now, but CGoban score estimate says white is ahead 10.5, and it's late enough in the game that it's not going to be out by more than a few points (it's still marking a few points as being worth points when they're clearly going to be dame, but roughly the same number for each side, and certainly not a discrepancy of 11 in white's favour). We're close enough to the end that I'll play out the game anyway, but it's a shame for such an exciting game to end in this fashion :)

(Actually, I only just remembered the half-point kos - there's no way I'm actually playing those out unless somehow the game depends on them, but at least there are two so we can pass over them quickly.)

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #424 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:17 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm242 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X . . . 1 X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


establishing solid connections

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #425 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:31 am 
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[go]$$Bcm243 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . 1 , O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X . . . O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Meh. Let's just play a few dull endgame moves to end this (while silently praying for a miracle)...

(Side note: one of my first instincts was to play H12, but on closer reflection it looks to be worth pretty much zero points...)

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #426 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:55 am 
Gosei

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Just to prove how bad my counting is ... I did a quick pass at counting this board from here, and got:

W+6.5 (B - 93, W - 99.5)

I'll wait until the end to see how close that is to the actual score ...

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #427 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:28 am 
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My rough count for on-board points Black ~94, White ~100 + 6.5. So, white wins by around 12.

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #428 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:56 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm244 Prisoner Count :w35: :13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . X 1 O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X . . . O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


im blocking off territory and establishing a more solid connection

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #429 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:39 am 
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[go]$$Bcm245 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . X O O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X 1 . . O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Initially I was deciding between the 1-point reverse sente move at J8, and the 2-point gote at F5. (Theoretically I believe these should be worth the same, but I decided the gote was better here as it was actually one point better for me, and at this very late stage of the game I can't believe sente is worth more than one point.) But then I saw some moves in this area that could also be in the running for "best move" now. This move I've played is actually "double sente", in a rather perverse very-very-late-endgame kind of way :lol: If white plays a gote move elsewhere, I can gain another point with K9 (and be threatening to gain a further point still), and if white got this point, he'd be "threatening" the 1-point move at J11. So I suspect this is the right move to play, and therefore have played it.

Although my heart's not really in it - if I can somehow play the rest of this endgame absolutely perfectly, and my opponent messes up a little, I'll still probably lose by 4 points or so :sad: At least I can aim to lose by less than komi, to claim that I won on the board ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #430 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:53 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm246 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . X O O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X X 1 . O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


keeping it simple here no need for fancy moves

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #431 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:43 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm247 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . X O O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X X O . O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . 1 . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


OK, he responded. I think I'll take that 2-point gote now.

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #432 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:59 am 
Gosei
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So I think that move is 1.5 points, or 3 points gote. First, if black plays first, it's gote, but with a sente followup push (actually I think Bill would say the 3-4 exchange is "ambiguous", but it counts the same as sente I think):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Black first
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . X O O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X 1 3 4 O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Similarly, if white plays first it's gote with a sente followup:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 White first
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X 3 O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . 4 X O O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X 1 . . O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . . . O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


there's a 3 point swing between these two, so it's 1.5 miai counting, slightly larger than the 2 point gote.

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #433 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:19 pm 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm248 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . X O O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X X O . O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X . X 1 O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


now we are entering the last little bit of endgame, again im keeping everything simple just blocking off the last little bit of territory

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #434 Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:28 pm 
Lives in gote

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KGS: robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm249 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . X O O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X X O . O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X 1 X O O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Not really much point in saying anything here - or, I guess, from here until the end of the game (which can't be long away).

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #435 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:12 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm250 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O 1 X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . X O O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X X O . O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . . O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X X X O O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


solid connection

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #436 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:24 am 
Gosei
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instead of this I think W should play H8, then I think maybe A9 is a bit bigger.

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #437 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:08 am 
Lives in gote

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Location: Durham, UK
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Rank: KGS 9k
KGS: robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm251 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O O X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . X O O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X X O . O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . 1 O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X X X O O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Only threatens a half-point ko - I can't see any further consequences if I lose it. As a result, I'm playing here instead, as I'm sure it's bigger.

PS: I accept that the game is lost for me unless something very strange happens, so I hope I'm getting those nice notes from Ed (although I don't think my endgame is very good, I've definitely pulled something back in the past few moves, even if that's due to my opponent's understandable desire to simplify things at the cost of a few points. Plus the endgame is I think the part of the game that it's easiest to play better at in a slow format like this.)

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #438 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:00 pm 
Oza
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The ko is fairly big... B can probably get points at D14 and G14 if he connects and plays G13.

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #439 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:59 pm 
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Bill will probably need to correct me on this, but I think the filling the ko is 5/6 of a point?

A standard "half point ko" is a 1 point swing over the course of 3 moves, so capturing/filling it is worth 1/3 of a point.

There's an additional 1 point because white will need to connect at D14, so that bring the value up to 2 points of swing over 3 moves, so 2/3 of a point.

If black wins, black can play G13 afterward for one more point (while also preventing white from connecting to the right), but white can play G13 himself to take the option away in gote. So that's another 1/2 point of value for black, so a total of 2+1/2 points of swing over 3 moves, so 5/6 of a point for the ko.

White playing G13 is almost worth more, because black might have to fill at J15 if white cuts at G14, but I think there's no threat. If white cuts, black can play J13 and connect his group out, to avoid having to fill. If white plays J13 instead of cutting, black can push at H13, having enough time to both prevent white from connecting and get G14 himself, so that he doesn't have to fill at J15.

Anyways, tedomari and ko threat issues aside, this means that black's play is probably okay, because blocking white's push is 1 point, which is more than 5/6 of a point. White should have played there himself in sente.

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #440 Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:51 pm 
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[go]$$Wcm252 Prisoner Count :w35: :b13:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O X . X . X X O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X O X . X O X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . O X . X X O O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . O O X . X . X X O O X X X X O X |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . X O . . O . . X X X |
$$ | . . O . O X . X X O O O O . O X . . X |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . 1 X . . O . X X X . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . X O . X . X . X |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . O . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . X O O . X X X X X . X |
$$ | . . X X X . . X X O . O X . . . X . X |
$$ | . X X O . . . X O O . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X X X O X . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O O X O . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | X X . X X X O O X X . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | X . X O O O . O O , . . . O O X O X X |
$$ | X X X O . O . . . . O . . O . O X X . |
$$ | X O O . . O . . . . . . . . . O X O X |
$$ | O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O O |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


pretty much just filling in some neutral points in center

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