133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

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Kirby
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . 0 . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In this situation, I initially wonder why white does not play here:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O W |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
But I suppose this is because, if white played that way, black can play here:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Now, if black plays there, it has less meaning:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . W |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
That's my guess, though. This is, of course, without reading out the liberties of the marked stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . B O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . B O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Either way, it seems that's why he plays that way.
be immersed
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Kirby
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Now, if I were white, I want to get in a move like this one, sometime soon:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It is kind of a burden I feel with the somewhat awkward position of the three marked stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O B O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
But alas, I do not have time to help that burden. It does not seem to be, at the moment, the biggest area on the board.

The question is, if/when white plays there... Should I respond, or tenuki?

I think it will depend a lot on the timing.

Anyway, that's the type of attack I anticipate from white.

Knowing Magicwand, though, he'll likely approach a corner first. If it were me, I'd probably press black down on the bottom in sente if possible, and then play the move I mentioned above, without first approaching a corner.

For example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . C . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 5 3 1 . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 6 4 . 2 X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Well, if it went as above, maybe as white I want to play something around the marked area first... But maybe you get the idea of my idea of what Magicwand's idea might be of what to play. But then again, maybe his idea is different than the idea that my idea is of what his idea is.

Get the idea?
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

To clarify what I mean by Magicwand probably approaching a corner, first, I might anticipate something like this from him:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 8 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . C . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 5 3 1 . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 6 4 . 2 X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Again, maybe a play in the marked area might be in order. But he might approach the corner to coordinate his attack.

Just my idea, though. :-p
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Well, I figure I have two options:
1.) I can sacrifice those stones, and tenuki.
2.) I can commit to keeping those stones.

I think the stones are fairly important, as they keep the marked stones without a base, yet:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W W X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . W . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
So it's not a good idea to sacrifice them, I think.

So I have decided to keep the stones. If that's the case, the last exchange - his 2nd line stone for my 3rd line stone - has strengthened my stones, and has made it easier for me to keep them.
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by topazg »

Kirby wrote:
Well, I figure I have two one options:
1.) I can sacrifice those stones, and tenuki.
2 1.) I can commit to keeping those stones.
Corrected.

You're opponent is pushing from behind on the second line, and the stones of yours his strengthening are cutting White's groups painfully apart. There is never an option to sacrifice stones these important. Not only that, but they have juicy followups if White tenuki'd:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 9 7 6 4 O . X O . 2 |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . 5 X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Kirby wrote:
Now, if I were white, I want to get in a move like this one, sometime soon:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It is kind of a burden I feel with the somewhat awkward position of the three marked stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O B O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
But alas, I do not have time to help that burden. It does not seem to be, at the moment, the biggest area on the board.

The question is, if/when white plays there... Should I respond, or tenuki?

I think it will depend a lot on the timing.

Anyway, that's the type of attack I anticipate from white.

Knowing Magicwand, though, he'll likely approach a corner first. If it were me, I'd probably press black down on the bottom in sente if possible, and then play the move I mentioned above, without first approaching a corner.

For example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . C . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 5 3 1 . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 6 4 . 2 X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Well, if it went as above, maybe as white I want to play something around the marked area first... But maybe you get the idea of my idea of what Magicwand's idea might be of what to play. But then again, maybe his idea is different than the idea that my idea is of what his idea is.

Get the idea?

@Kirby:
In your comment above, you reference this idea for white:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This might make sense if black's play here was not sente:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As it is sente, though, the idea doesn't make much sense.

Let's hope that you read for black better than you read for white.
be immersed
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Kirby
Honinbo
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Kirby wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Now, if I were white, I want to get in a move like this one, sometime soon:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It is kind of a burden I feel with the somewhat awkward position of the three marked stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O B O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
But alas, I do not have time to help that burden. It does not seem to be, at the moment, the biggest area on the board.

The question is, if/when white plays there... Should I respond, or tenuki?

I think it will depend a lot on the timing.

Anyway, that's the type of attack I anticipate from white.

Knowing Magicwand, though, he'll likely approach a corner first. If it were me, I'd probably press black down on the bottom in sente if possible, and then play the move I mentioned above, without first approaching a corner.

For example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . C . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 5 3 1 . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 6 4 . 2 X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Well, if it went as above, maybe as white I want to play something around the marked area first... But maybe you get the idea of my idea of what Magicwand's idea might be of what to play. But then again, maybe his idea is different than the idea that my idea is of what his idea is.

Get the idea?

@Kirby:
In your comment above, you reference this idea for white:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This might make sense if black's play here was not sente:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As it is sente, though, the idea doesn't make much sense.

Let's hope that you read for black better than you read for white.
Yes, I agree. Let's hope that I read better for Black than I do for White.
be immersed
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User avatar
ez4u
Oza
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by ez4u »

Kirby wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Now, if I were white, I want to get in a move like this one, sometime soon:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It is kind of a burden I feel with the somewhat awkward position of the three marked stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O B O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
But alas, I do not have time to help that burden. It does not seem to be, at the moment, the biggest area on the board.

The question is, if/when white plays there... Should I respond, or tenuki?

I think it will depend a lot on the timing.

Anyway, that's the type of attack I anticipate from white.

Knowing Magicwand, though, he'll likely approach a corner first. If it were me, I'd probably press black down on the bottom in sente if possible, and then play the move I mentioned above, without first approaching a corner.

For example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . C . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 5 3 1 . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 6 4 . 2 X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Well, if it went as above, maybe as white I want to play something around the marked area first... But maybe you get the idea of my idea of what Magicwand's idea might be of what to play. But then again, maybe his idea is different than the idea that my idea is of what his idea is.

Get the idea?

@Kirby:
In your comment above, you reference this idea for white:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This might make sense if black's play here was not sente:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As it is sente, though, the idea doesn't make much sense.

Let's hope that you read for black better than you read for white.
Yes, I agree. Let's hope that I read better for Black than I do for White.
Kirby - It might be time for a little less caffeine and a little more sleep! :D
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

ez4u wrote:...
Kirby - It might be time for a little less caffeine and a little more sleep! :D
Yeah. When I was in the shower this morning, I just couldn't stop thinking about how I thought that Kirby was wrong. I had to mention it, since it was on my mind.
P.S. Inline-hide seems to be broken. I'll have to look into that...
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . 3 . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i remember studying this joseky when i was about 7 kyu.
now i forgot most..but i think what i played is correct sofar..
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . O . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think that this is sente. I want to play here, because I hate a floating group. It is harder to make territory in the center. Many people are good at it, but it's hard for me.

Since I can get this move, I think, in sente, I want to play it now. I don't think it's aji keshi, as it keeps white enclosed.

Provided this is sente, I'll protect my group on the bottom next.
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Magicwand
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . O . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . O . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . 6 X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It is time to help my group on the bottom. I don't think white got a ton with this sequence, but maybe he will get a bit more compensation pressing down my group.

So far, Magicwand at 2 stones is not so bad. Let's see what he has in store for me in the middle game. :-)
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Re: 133. Magicwand vs. Kirby

Post by Kirby »

Some personal analysis on this board position:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . O . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
My bottom group feels safe and secure. If possible, I want to get sente so that I can play somewhere else on the board, first.

White's "influence" from playing the 5-4 point is somewhat offset by the marked stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O B O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . O . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In that sense, I have no real fear at this point, because I feel that the influence is still in balance, and black is is still ahead (I think, at least).

It is good to keep in mind on the left side to have a ladder breaker, so that I can play the cut when convenient:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B W . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , W O B O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Of course, it is not the time now (eg. I have no ladder breaker), and I might never get the chance, depending on how the flow of the game goes.

If I do get sente, the question becomes one of where I should play.

It would be nice, of course, to respond to white's approach from earlier:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . C . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . O . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This might be as simple as playing somewhere like the marked spot, above.

Another big point, of course, is enclosing the top left corner. I'd like to get that, too, if possible.

I feel somewhat inclined to play a move on the right to assist the stones I have on the side:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . O . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
But I'm having difficulty thinking of a single move that seems to assist those stones in a "smooth way". For that reason, I will probably have to leave them and wait for his attack. I will have to use their strength to strike back. :twisted:

That's simply because I can't find a way to defend them well in one move right now. So probably, the top move candidates I'm thinking of if I get sente are:
1.) Responding to the bottom left approach.

2.) Enclosing the top left.

It's unlikely that I can do both of these. But it'd be nice if I could. Actually, I don't even know for sure that I'll get sente on the bottom, but I think that those areas are still the next points of interest.
be immersed
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