Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

I think that the entire game may come down to this life and death problem:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . O , . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O X X . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X a b X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Where is the vital point? My current opinion is 'c'.
So we poke first with 1, then play 3 at the vital point:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . O , . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O X X . 2 1 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X 6 4 X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 7 3 . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

More speculations on the theme:

If N1 is indeed the vital point, it might be best for black to take it first. The diagram below shows this attempt. The natural replies by white can lead to a surprisingly easy life:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . O , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O X X . 3 2 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X 4 . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . 5 . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So white has to play something different:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . O , . 6 5 4 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O X X 8 2 3 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by jts »

there is no way in hell my move is worth FOUR post from joaz...... :roll: doesn't he have taxes to do or something?
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Prodigious »

I see very little chance of black actually dying, but white might become strong enough in the process that E9 would become a serious threat. This game is just getting interesting...
IN VICTORY, MALICE. IN DEFEAT, REVENGE. DON'T GET MAD, GET BAD
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by schultz »

Prodigious wrote:
I see very little chance of black actually dying, but white might become strong enough in the process that E9 would become a serious threat. This game is just getting interesting...

Magicwand pointed that out as well. This is definitely an exciting game, and one I've enjoyed watching quite a bit. :)
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

...Daniel?
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by daniel_the_smith »

...Accepted. (Sorry for delay, been busy...)

I really don't like this move, but I'm extremely indecisive. Here are three things I thought about:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Or some other 5. My first thought. Seems much better?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . O , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 2 1 X . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 O 3 . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc I think this 2 is much more probable than jts's sequence. I don't think we can live locally.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . O , . . 1 . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O 2 . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc In my own game I'd play this.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . O 3 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 1 2 X . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc In my own game I'd play this. (con't, option 1)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . 5 . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . O 3 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 4 1 2 X . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 O . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc In my own game I'd play this. (1b)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . O 3 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 4 1 2 X . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 O 5 . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc In my own game I'd play this. (con't; option 2)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X . . . O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . O . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . 9 O 3 4 . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 1 2 X 6 . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 O 8 . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess option 2 gives white too much unless we can kill the lower left.

I have no idea what's best. I'll let Violence fix it :)
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by jts »

Violence...
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by jts »

Hey, so, is anyone in touch with Violence in real life? It would be good if we could suss out whether to replace him... or maybe just declare the game over... or maybe amputate the biggest brothers and finish it as 2v2...
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

We expect to see him at Cotsen...if that ever happens.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by jts »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:We expect to see him at Cotsen...if that ever happens.

Was he at Cotsen?
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

jts wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:We expect to see him at Cotsen...if that ever happens.

Was he at Cotsen?


I didn't see him. Perhaps he has gotten a real life. :o
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Aidoneus »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
jts wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:We expect to see him at Cotsen...if that ever happens.

Was he at Cotsen?


I didn't see him. Perhaps he has gotten a real life. :o


I gather that you all abandoned this game. What a pity! (Or is the game already decided?) Do you have a complete sgf file for it? (Even better, a file with some of the rejected moves!) I learned quite a bit from reading through the comments, and I would like to study your game more thoroughly.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Aidoneus wrote:...
I gather that you all abandoned this game. ...

There was no formal agreement to do so, but at least half of the six participants are no longer active members. TTBOMK, none of them has died, so it is theoretically possible to continue.

Aidoneus wrote:...is the game already decided?...

No. Black captured a large group, but white go a big wall out of it. Black is ahead, but has maxed out his potential.

Aidoneus wrote:... Do you have a complete sgf file for it? (Even better, a file with some of the rejected moves!)...

No. :(
That would be a huge amount of work to assemble one. But I would love to see someone do it.
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Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Post by Aidoneus »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Aidoneus wrote:...
I gather that you all abandoned this game. ...

There was no formal agreement to do so, but at least half of the six participants are no longer active members. TTBOMK, none of them has died, so it is theoretically possible to continue.

Aidoneus wrote:...is the game already decided?...

No. Black captured a large group, but white go a big wall out of it. Black is ahead, but has maxed out his potential.

Aidoneus wrote:... Do you have a complete sgf file for it? (Even better, a file with some of the rejected moves!)...

No. :(
That would be a huge amount of work to assemble one. But I would love to see someone do it.


I see. Frankly, at times, I lost track of what moves were made and what were just being discussed! And by which side as players changed! :lol:

Well, thanks for your response. It really was a fascinating game.
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