Finnish insei in Japan

tj86430 · Post by **tj86430** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:55 am

I'm not sure if this is of interest to anyone, but in case it is, Antti Törmänen (6 dan) is today traveling to Japan to be an insei. His blog can be found at http://gooften.net/

p2501 · Post by **p2501** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:00 am

Cool, thanks for sharing.

edit: thank god its in english ^^

daal · Post by **daal** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:23 am

I'm not generally a big fan of go blogs, but I must say that this one is excellent. Antti provides both nicely detailed comments on some of his own games, as well as informative descriptions of programs he has taken part in, such as Experience Go in China. I'm looking forward to hearing about his experiences as an insei in Japan.

John Fairbairn · Post by **John Fairbairn** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:55 am

I've never looked at Finnish, but as Antti's name is one we may be saying a lot in future, could a Finn provide a passable pronounciation for us?

Also, as he's already 21, would I be right in assuming this inseiship is a form of avoiding-work experience like backpacking (of which I thoroughly approve) rather than with any real hope of becoming a playing pro?

It's good to see an example of a western player coming through from a very early age.

jokkebk · Post by **jokkebk** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:59 am

p2501 wrote:Cool, thanks for sharing.

edit: thank god its in english ^^

Of course not to disappoint those who just love the Finnish language, Antti is also keeping another in Finnish, which will likely focus more on the casual/non-go side of the trip: http://insei.japanissa.fi/

I for one hope that Antti has a great trip and becomes the strongest player in Europe afterwards! I have to admit I have a personal agenda also in that, as I've been taking live lessons from Antti as he lived (until today) 30m from my home.

quantumf · Post by **quantumf** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:33 am

John Fairbairn wrote:Also, as he's already 21, would I be right in assuming this inseiship is a form of avoiding-work experience like backpacking (of which I thoroughly approve) rather than with any real hope of becoming a playing pro?

Is this based on the rules? Or his age vs strength combination? According to his blog, his intention is to sit the Kansai Ki-in pro exam later in 2012.

tj86430 · Post by **tj86430** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:00 am

John Fairbairn wrote:could a Finn provide a passable pronounciation for us?

I think I could, but I'm not sure how (I mean in which format)

jts · Post by **jts** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:26 am

Very interesting blog.

As an aside: we now have the first indisputable example of a Kaya.gs booster referring to it as "the new KGS".

Javaness2 · Post by **Javaness2** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:32 am

My attempt at a phonic spelling

Aunt-tea Tor*e-Ma-Nen *Scottish rolling R

Antti is at university still I think?

John Fairbairn wrote:I've never looked at Finnish, but as Antti's name is one we may be saying a lot in future, could a Finn provide a passable pronounciation for us?

Also, as he's already 21, would I be right in assuming this inseiship is a form of avoiding-work experience like backpacking (of which I thoroughly approve) rather than with any real hope of becoming a playing pro?

It's good to see an example of a western player coming through from a very early age.

tj86430 · Post by **tj86430** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:13 pm

Javaness2 wrote:My attempt at a phonic spelling
Aunt-tea Tor*e-Ma-Nen *Scottish rolling R

Antti is at university still I think?

"Aunt" is not quite correct (as far as I can tell), the correct pronunciation for the first syllable is more like the end of word "hunt" - without the "h". The second syllable, "tea" is close, but the vowel is short, more like "tih". The difficult thing for most foreigners is to clearly pronounce the "t" in both syllables, so that it is really a double t, otherwise it will sound like "until" without the last "l", which is wrong.

In the last name the ö (o with dots) is difficult, I can't think of a good example in English right now. For those who speak French, it is very close to how "eu" is usually pronounced (think of "leur" for instance - in fact if you know how to pronounce leur, but replace the "l" with a "t", you are very close to the first syllable of the last name. The "r" is in fact closer to Scottish than French). The ä is close to the a in "Macintosh". The "e" in the last syllable like e in "less", not like "e" in "me". Again, it is very important to remember to pronounce all consonants (as it is always in Finnish)

And yes, as far as I know Antti is still at the university.

Laman · Post by **Laman** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:37 pm

ad pronunciation: try this for Antti a this for Törmänen. if it is not good, i am sorry, i don't have sound at this pc, so can't check it myself. yeah, and i am not Finn to judge it anyway

otherwise: best luck to him, we lack new Western pros. or new ex-inseis if he wouldn't succeed

tj86430 · Post by **tj86430** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:41 pm

Laman wrote:ad pronunciation: try this for Antti a this for Törmänen. if it is not good, i am sorry, i don't have sound at this pc, so can't check it myself. yeah, and i am not Finn to judge it anyway

Both are very good, thank you. I didn't know about that site, looks very useful.

John Fairbairn · Post by **John Fairbairn** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:59 pm

Is there someone, maybe Vesa, who knows the Finnish scene well enough to comment on whether this achievement by Antti is entirely down to individual drive and talent, or are there lessons from the way he was nurtured or taught by Finnish or other colleagues? The Finns in general seem to punch above their weight in European go.

Javaness2 · Post by **Javaness2** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:25 pm

I think the Finnish players take the game rather seriously on the whole. The association has exploded in size recent years, and they have quite a healthy proportion of dan players.

Antti was stuck at around 1 or 2kyu for a long time, then improved quite rapidly. I think he took some lessons, and has been on China trips too. His blog suggests he spends a lot of time studying the game, which, putting everything together, ought to explain his rise to 6dan. I have heard he is one of the compilers of the Oulu Joseki Dictionary.

Vesa · Post by **Vesa** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:46 am

John Fairbairn wrote:Is there someone, maybe Vesa, who knows the Finnish scene well enough to comment on whether this achievement by Antti is entirely down to individual drive and talent, or are there lessons from the way he was nurtured or taught by Finnish or other colleagues? The Finns in general seem to punch above their weight in European go.

Well, thank you for your trust, John

I think most of the credit goes to Antti's character, skills and the early start (in the Western calendar). He's from Oulu city which is a little isolated from the other go scene in Finland but there's a group of quickly developing players around (and they've got Su Yang as the resident teacher now).

On the other hand, there are no distances in the Internet and I think Antti partly grew up in the KGS (Kiseido Go Server that time). He might have a nice fan base there too

He's also actively participating in all kind of real life go activities home and abroad.

Anyway, I think all Finnish players are very happy now that Antti finally took the road to insei.

Cheers,
Vesa

Life In 19x19

Finnish insei in Japan

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