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topazg
Tengen
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by topazg Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:19 am
My first guess would be:
$$Wcm20
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm20
Just because I've always liked it from the 4-4 + ogeima joseki extension, but it might be kinda thin here. However, the hint perhaps suggests:
$$Wcm20
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm20
gogameguru
Lives in gote
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by gogameguru Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:23 am
@topazg I like your second option. You seem to be on a roll with your second thoughts
. Maybe there's something in that for you?
Your first suggestion could be an overplay. Black might do something like this... The tesuji at 4 is quite severe and up to 6, white still needs to protect the cutting stones against 'a' with 7.
$$Wc White can't defend at 2 anymore. 1 is an overplay.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc White can't defend at 2 anymore. 1 is an overplay.
Instead, the game would become painful for white, because white would need to resort to something strange this...
$$Wcm20 A painful result for white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm20 A painful result for white.
If white tries to resist instead...
$$Wc White's crushed ( :b9: at :w2: )
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc White's crushed ( :b9: at :w2: )
Continuing, it's a one way street... Even if white could get a ko, there aren't any big ko threats.
$$Wc Black's one move ahead in the capturing race.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc Black's one move ahead in the capturing race.
topazg
Tengen
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by topazg Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:31 am
If it does happen, I'm guessing the right is urgent for Black, leading to something like this perhaps?
$$Wcm20
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm20
I wonder when Black will have time for "a"?
PS I presume "b" is not going to be played just yet. It's only really a sente single point, but it's only value as a ko threat for White is if killing those stones did some real damage to Black, or if it really secured White's weaknesses. I'd have thought, when the dust settles, that its value will be lower than right now, so I guess it's not worth saving as a ko threat? I dunno, I'm still guessing it won't be played just yet.
gaius
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by gaius Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:27 am
I might as well post this sequence in one go
$$Wcm20
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm20
My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.When in doubt, play the most aggressive move
topazg
Tengen
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by topazg Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:42 am
gaius wrote: I might as well post this sequence in one go
$$Wcm20
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm20
That is interesting. That was my first guess, but then I figured forcing White to play
was too helpful for White, because of
- 4th line is obviously great, but I figured it wasn't worth giving white the extra thickness.
$$Wcm20
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm20
Dusk Eagle
Gosei
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by Dusk Eagle Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:42 am
My quick guess:
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
gaius
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by gaius Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:42 am
I'll be leaving the Netherlands for two weeks of vacation this Saturday. So updates will probably become a bit flaky for two weeks. Unless someone wants to take over the updates for that period. If you'd volunteer, you can PM me and I'll send a link to the game! Thanks!
My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.When in doubt, play the most aggressive move
prokofiev
Lives with ko
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by prokofiev Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:25 am
It doesn't seem like black can get much of the corner:
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
or
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Nasty ko.
or
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
P16 is still a problem and I'm not sure where to go now.
I guess the first is best for black?
topazg
Tengen
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by topazg Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:49 am
I was envisaging this, but DuskEagle's may be better..:
$$Bcm27
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm27
I figured as "a" is pretty dangerous, Black may get an eye in sente, but if White can push and cut at "b" and "c" to deal with the problem, probably not. However, at least if White does that Black can get relatively thick and may be able to turn to the two White stones on top.
EDIT: Actually, Black losing those three stones is so painful. I think Black's not going to play in the corner at all this move, and try to make shape with those three stones instead, whilst threatening to break out. Maybe "d"?
Dusk Eagle
Gosei
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by Dusk Eagle Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:32 am
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
This isn't a good ko for white. If black wins it, white's corner is dead.
I stand by my move, and then if white kicks, play a move that threatens to break out. No need to play a damaging move before white even embarks on that variation.
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 or perhaps 'a' if white decides to play
, but not until then IMO. However, if black plans on playing topazg's variation, I think
should be played first.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
prokofiev
Lives with ko
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by prokofiev Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:30 am
Okay, maybe the ko isn't as bad for black as I thought (though white does have several local threats against the right side group). White can also just fill immediately, and then black's in trouble:
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
There are complicated follow-ups (also swapping 7 & 8 and other connections), so I'm not certain of the status, but it seems bad for black.
I guess you already understood/accounted for this sort of thing, though, because you suggested playing 1 and then trying to escape.
gogameguru
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by gogameguru Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:50 pm
gaius wrote: I'll be leaving the Netherlands for two weeks of vacation this Saturday. So updates will probably become a bit flaky for two weeks. Unless someone wants to take over the updates for that period. If you'd volunteer, you can PM me and I'll send a link to the game! Thanks!
After the last update I was almost certain I'd studied this game. So I looked it up in Kombilo and realised I have a commentary of the game in a book. Since I won't be taking part in the guessing anyway, it makes sense for me to post the moves while you're away. How often do you want me to update it?
hyperpape
Tengen
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by hyperpape Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:46 pm
If he doesn't answer, I'd recommend roughly one per day or one every other day, so long as you have a good number of people guessing. That seems to be the trend so far. There are a few days that he posted twice.
gaius
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by gaius Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:16 am
$$Wcm20
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm20
David: that would be great! As to the pace, it's up to you, I think you have a feeling for the right pace as well. I'll take over again after I come back!
My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.When in doubt, play the most aggressive move
topazg
Tengen
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by topazg Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:25 am
Good call Dusk Eagle!
$$Wcm30
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm30
Maybe here now? I think "a" actually mostly connects, which is a bit awkward for White, but anything else allows Black to play "b", which seems even worse for White? Complicated stuff.
. Maybe there's something in that for you?
was too helpful for White, because of 
- 4th line is obviously great, but I figured it wasn't worth giving white the extra thickness.
or perhaps 'a' if white decides to play 
, but not until then IMO. However, if black plans on playing topazg's variation, I think