Mike's Motivational Tools

[Mike]

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1279

I don't know how to take just a position from an SGF file, so just skip to move 134.

So unless I am wrong somewhere I honestly don't see how it could be bad for the game to hang on my opponent needing to win a two-step ko where I have 3 local threats and he has 0. I am still of the opinion it should've been played straight away. He needs to make like... 5 threats to win it? And as you said, there are no meaningful threats on the board, I can just answer the biggest ones and then choose to ignore some small one for the 60+ point kill.

[Tami]

Just an ide but why not study just one Lee Sedol game a day, rather than four or even eight, and really try to understand it? It might be the difference between really reading one book instead of skimming several･

[Mike]

I wouldn't know how to do that. Even if I spent a week studying 1 game I would never understand it correctly. Maybe they're just dodging events that are 10+ moves in the future? They both see it, react to it and it never comes to be, and to a "normal" person it appears they're making passive, weird, too aggressive etc. moves. The main reason I am doing them én masse is not to fully understand what he's doing, but to learn good shape/fuseki/joseki/tricks. Memorizing 8 games vs 1, 8 will see 8 times more of each and if I remember only a fraction of it, again, 8 wins out.. I appreciate how good some of the moves are, I have internal dialogue about them, but I cannot pretend to fully understand it all, so I move on.

Maybe once I become stronger.. Who knows. I can't fathom what it would be like to look at a move and go "ah, this is to prevent that dangerous situation that could happen on the left side if this and this and this and this and then that and cut here and then that.." by just looking at it, but maybe I'll get there someday.

There are 370 Lee Sedol games in this collection, it's only up to 2005 and probably doesn't have everything.. Around 450-500 more can be found in go4go, but individually download all of them? Uh.. Well, anyway.. After going through and memorizing, if only in short term/work memory, ~850 of his games, I'm sure I will be a lot stronger and understand him better. Maybe I can then return to some of them and start going through them with more care.

[p2501]

Korean games often are based on fights, exchanges, threats. Just skimming through them is probably not improving any particular part of your game. They often skip honte plays for an exchange somewhere else.

Just my thoughts.

[Mike]

Not sure where the word skimming got into this. I said I memorize them. I can replay the first 50 to 100 moves, depending on when it got too messy to be meaningful. Skimming to me would be replaying it once, going "Huh." and then removing it and replaying the next. And even if they start fights and all that, I am still learning fuseki and joseki, not to mention shapes that are involved in those fights. They attack positions that come up in everyones games, not some randomly laid down stones. There are good ideas for attacking, defending, sabaki, when it's necessary to defend etc.

And considering how I've ALREADY used many moves and ideas I got from these games, you're just blatantly wrong and I have nothing else to say to you.

[p2501]

Sorry I didn't read the entire thread. I didn't mean to offend you in any way.

[topazg]

One thing you may find useful Mike, is something I did fairly exhaustively when I was studying:

Load the game up in an SGF file, and run it through GOSWF (see http://justplaygo.com/ for an example), and try to guess the moves yourself, slowly playing out the game as you get them right.

That way, you're encouraged to find the moves yourself, and get a feel of your instincts improving as you go

[Mike]

One thing you may find useful Mike, is something I did fairly exhaustively when I was studying:

Load the game up in an SGF file, and run it through GOSWF (see http://justplaygo.com/ for an example), and try to guess the moves yourself, slowly playing out the game as you get them right.

That way, you're encouraged to find the moves yourself, and get a feel of your instincts improving as you go

I actually do that a lot when playing it out on the real board. Of course like that I only get 1 guess then the move is revealed, but I've had a fairly good success rate in the fuseki stages of the game. Even found some nice looking tesuji moves during a couple of tough fights.

I'll definitely try it out, though. I'm just worried it would turn into a frustrated click-fest when I can't get the move right again and again Also, I have a kind of a kinetic memory I guess. I have a really hard time remembering games that I've seen/played on the computer, but can usually remember all of my games that I play on a real one.

Yesterdays blitz games were worrisomely bad. I continued the losing streak to 7 games(counting the previous 4 I lost) and then finally broke it in game 8. I don't really mind the losing, but I got so angry when the reason I lost was just so stupid. It wasn't like the first 4 I lost where the loss became clear early on or in the middle-game, no.. In the 3rd game I think it was, I lost 15 to 20 stones in the late-endgame. I'm talking 2 point moves stage here. I just messed it up. They weren't even hard to read, it was literally "if he plays right here I am in atari" and I didn't notice. 2 Out of 3 losses were in the endgame. I am not that good in endgame in regular games either, I guess it translates stronger to blitz, then, when I have no time to think about it.

But the last game made me feel a little bit better. I had a good attack going on I felt, but I of course messed it up in the literally last move. I still won, even if some "luck" was involved, but the "kill" before that was nice.

Today it is time to play slow games again.

[Mike]

So, today my slow games went 1-1. First game was.. well, annoying, but you can read in the comments how I dealt with that. Second game was much more interesting, with my opponent taking his time to make his moves. It's far more fun to play a game where you feel like your opponent actually cares where he places his stones.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1286

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1287

Reading is still a big issue. But it's not just that, there are some very clear mistakes in the early game where it's pretty much just a wrong decision that I make. But there is time. Ohh there is a lot of time. The timeline for reaching this goal is set on June 2012 and by my calculations in that time reviewing 4 games a day I will just have gone through all of Sedols games

[Marcus]

In the first game, you mention the following position:

$$c 3-3 invasion var 1
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . W . |
$$ . . . . O . . . a . |
$$ , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c 3-3 invasion var 1
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . W . |
$$ . . . . O . . . a . |
$$ , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . O X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

In this particular case, White can be cut at a (note that this might not be the best idea for black in this situation, just an example of the shape) ...

$$c 3-3 invasion var 1
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . W . |
$$ . . . . O . . 2 1 6 |
$$ , X . . . . X 3 4 . |
$$ . . . . O X X O 5 . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 7 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c 3-3 invasion var 1
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . W . |
$$ . . . . O . . 2 1 6 |
$$ , X . . . . X 3 4 . |
$$ . . . . O X X O 5 . |
$$ . . . . . X O O 7 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

However, White can follow a different path to make work:

$$c 3-3 invasion var 1
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 1 . 0 . |
$$ . . . . O . . . a . |
$$ , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . O 9 3 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . 5 4 8 6 . |
$$ . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ -------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c 3-3 invasion var 1
$$ , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 1 . 0 . |
$$ . . . . O . . . a . |
$$ , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . O 9 3 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . 5 4 8 6 . |
$$ . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

Because of Black can no longer cut.

Just some theory from when I was doing a bit of study on 3-3 invasion shapes.

[Mike]

Ahh, you're right. I forgot that it was that move. I remember I got "tricked" by that move in Korea where it would've been better for me to close off the top side, but thinking he can only play a keima that I can block, I didn't. Bad memory, bad.

[topazg]

Also, I have a kind of a kinetic memory I guess. I have a really hard time remembering games that I've seen/played on the computer, but can usually remember all of my games that I play on a real one.

I think I'm deliberately misinterpreting you here, but I think a memory borne out of labouring to work out the correct moves, including frustration at getting them wrong, is very beneficial for making an attempt to evaluate why the actual moves were good in the game. So when you remember the game, it's not a play out by rote memory, it's an "aw, damn, this is the bit I just couldn't get, and he played here, I remember clearly now - maybe it was because of the need to prevent this?..." etc etc

Just my rather unnecessary 2c, but I think that thought process does wonders to the long term retention of not just the moves themselves, but some attempt to reason your own moves when you play imitations of pro moves.

Ignore me if you like, I just have a desire to throw my opinion around once in a while

[Mike]

Topazg, I'll look into it(still not convinced I can remember anything from a screen though ). I think I have some program that already has that feature.

The blitzes continue to be a mystery to me. I went 2-2 in them just now and it's so odd. The 2 games I won were literally just easy, no other way to say it. Easy as heck. And then the other 2 were quite difficult and I ended up doing the usual mess ups in the end-game that cost me the games. I'm convinced its to do with peoples different styles. The ones that become difficult are usually large territory style and what ends up happening is that either they invade mine or I invade theirs and the mess that follows somehow always favours the opponent >_>

Then these easy ones.. Really not sure what's up with them. I mean, it says [3k] or [4k] behind their names, just like it does in those difficult games, but somehow.. It just doesn't feel the same. I'll actually post a couple of examples here. You can decide which is which.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1289

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1288

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my play is flawless in either of these. FAR from it. I am quite AWFUL at blitz, I have no problems admitting that. But the difference should be obvious regardless. This is all my blitzes. Black and White. I either win or lose EXACTLY like that. Magic?

[Mike]

Oh balls. I tried logging into KGS at 11:01 PM to play my 2 games and it's down.. Wait, when did it go down? Oh, at 11:00 PM. Right. Down for several hours means I won't be able to play today.

The reason my games went as late as they did is I discovered something awesome from the internetgoschool.com site. I haven't visited it since last year so I was checking if there are some new lessons I might be interested in and boy was there. There was a "Korean Style Go" tab added so I immediately clicked on that and what do I discover? 3 Commented "Korean Masters Games"... All by Lee Sedol The commentator, Young Sun Yoon 8p, likes Lee Sedol as well so that's why she picked his games.(Love at first, er, hearing? )

The games were littered with some of the most impressive moves and plays I have ever seen. I literally had my jaw stuck open at times. But out of those 3, his mentality is most clearly demonstrated in the last game. It is insane. He is winning the game after a big ko(which already was a result of some magnificent play) and his group on the right side is left weak due to a ko-threat he ignored. There is a clear and obvious way to live. Does he? No. He craaaawls out of there with seemingly nowhere to go in the most stubborn manner ever and just.. Somehow, gets out and in the process kills a whole bunch of stones. I mean come on. To be certain of the outcome of that situation he had to have read like 30 moves ahead x_x Any "normal" person, even a professional, would've just lived and won the game. There's a dozen examples similar to that where he "could" take the easy way out and it would be fine, but he just doesn't do it. Yes it sometimes backfires, but when it doesn't, the result is just something amazing.

In addition to picking out some lessons from Guo Juans site again, I've also considered joining the "Nordic Go Academy" where Antti Törmänen(Tien@KGS) is one of the teachers. I've had dozens of lessons with him over the last couple of years and he has helped me out a lot with my studies. Even if I am a weird student probably heh.. First I'm playing extremely complicated fuseki and joseki at nearly 1 dan level back when I had studied in Korea and all that, then I quit for a long time and come back as maybe a 3k who has forgotten all of those and plays like crap. Must be rewarding to teach me when I keep resetting every year I think the problem is I was an incredibly "technical" player, if that's the correct term. I mean I knew a massive amount of variations for all situations out of pure memory, I had no knowledge of "why" for most of them.. Those are the kind of things you forget easiest. Or I forget, at least. Had I focused more on reading and game sense, I probably could've reached at least the same level, if not more, and then if I end up quitting and coming back I would not go back that much as those are not things you "forget".

Oh well. This time around I am not focusing on joseki and fuseki that much. My main interest is to get stronger at reading. Even if my brains can't handle more than 30 minutes of tsumego, I'm certain I've already gotten better at it due to reading in games/reviews/pro-reviews.

Wall of text.

[Mike]

Today I decided I would try something different in my games. If my goal is to play more like Lee Sedol, then I do have to start actually trying to play like him at some point. If I keep being my usual self, protecting against everything and being all boring.. I think it'll just get harder and harder to shed it later on. So, today I attempted to focus a lot more on reading. I intentionally caused situations where I have to read a lot to survive. I'm obviously not quite there yet, but hey, it was definitely more fun than going "Uhm.. I should protect here.. Ah, he might do something here if I don't defend..." all the time.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1300

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1301

I will try to keep playing with this style in my future games. Of course, I have to find the balance between attacking and defending, it does no justice to Sedols style if I go around recklessly attacking everything and just die every time. Or even if it works out. He knows when to make a move elsewhere to secure something, like territory, even if there is a fight going on.

EDIT: Oh wow it's actually past 9PM. I'm pretty sure I started my blitzes around 3PM, so it took me 6 hours to play and review my games today. But it sure does feel good to have played satisfying games(except the blitzes, those were awful ).