Exciting problem to decide a game

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:02 pm

The position below is adapted from a recent game of mine. White has just passed, so it is black's move. White could have played j15 as the dame were being filled to fix the bad aji of the 2 black stones inside white's area, but then he would have lost by 0.5 points (Japanese rules). But bad aji won't win the game for black, he must find a sequence that works against any white resistance. The stakes could not be higher!

Note that a ko can be assumed as a success for black, as he only needs to gain 1 point to win the game, and there were indeed threats on the rest of the board. I have studied this position extensively and I believe black can win, though it is possible I missed something. This is a hard problem, to solve it without playing it out I think you need to be a high dan. I will give a few hints below, and post my solution later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hints:

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:49 pm

i looked at it for 3 min and can not find any... i will try later when i have more time.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:12 pm

are you sure that there is answer to this question???
i spent few more minute..and i dont see anything but aji.

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:41 pm

I just see dead ends as well. Albeit, I will now look at the hints.

Quite boring:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 7 5 3 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 6 4 2 . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . 7 . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 6 3 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 5 4 2 . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . 5 O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 3 4 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . 2 . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...Guess I was nowhere close

cyclops · Post by **cyclops** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:57 pm

Without using the hint after a few minutes this 7kyu came up with:

edit: In the next post MagicWand exposes my mistake quite clearly. So skip my post please.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:03 pm

cyclops wrote:Without using the hint after a few minutes this 7kyu came up with:
$$Bc
$$ +-----------------------------
$$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . .
$$ | . . . . X O 8 . . O X . . .
$$ | . . X X X O 7 . . O X . . .
$$ | . . X O O 3 4 . . O X X . .
$$ | . . X O . 5 . 2 . X O X . .
$$ | . . X O . 6 1 . . . O X . .
$$ | . . X O . . . . O O O X . .
$$ | . X X O . 9 0 X O X X X . .
$$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . .
$$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . .
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ +----------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . $$ | . . . . X O 8 . . O X . . . $$ | . . X X X O 7 . . O X . . . $$ | . . X O O 3 4 . . O X X . . $$ | . . X O . 5 . 2 . X O X . . $$ | . . X O . 6 1 . . . O X . . $$ | . . X O . . . . O O O X . . $$ | . X X O . 9 0 X O X X X . . $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------
$$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . .
$$ | . . . . X O O . . O X . .
$$ | . . X X X O X . . O X . .
$$ | . . X O O X O 4 . O X X .
$$ | . . X O . X 3 O . X O X .
$$ | . . X O 7 O X . 2 . O X .
$$ | . . X O . . 5 1 O O O X .
$$ | . X X O . X O X O X X X .
$$ | . X O O 6 O O O X X . . .
$$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . .
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ +--------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . $$ | . . . . X O O . . O X . . $$ | . . X X X O X . . O X . . $$ | . . X O O X O 4 . O X X . $$ | . . X O . X 3 O . X O X . $$ | . . X O 7 O X . 2 . O X . $$ | . . X O . . 5 1 O O O X . $$ | . X X O . X O X O X X X . $$ | . X O O 6 O O O X X . . . $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:40 am

Loons wrote:I just see dead ends as well. ...
$$c Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . 7 . O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 6 3 X O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . 5 4 2 . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . 7 . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 6 3 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 5 4 2 . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...Guess I was nowhere close

I think that Loons is on the right track, only one point off on the last move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . 0 . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . 8 . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . 9 . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . 7 O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 6 3 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 5 4 2 . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not sure where to go here, but it feels right.
Maybe this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . O 2 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O 3 O 1 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . X . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . X O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . O X X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:27 am

Loons wrote:I just see dead ends as well. Albeit, I will now look at the hints.

...Guess I was nowhere close

You were on the right track, but seemed to give up before it was clear what happened. Keep going, the main lines are 20-25 moves long.

cyclops · Post by **cyclops** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:00 pm

Uberdude wrote:You were on the right track, but seemed to give up before it was clear what happened. Keep going, the main lines are 20-25 moves long.

So I continued from Loons last diagram:

edit: so loons, in his latter diagram, better moves :w4:

to H14

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:06 pm

I think loons was closest with this diagram. But not yet spot on.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . 5 O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 3 4 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . 2 . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think Black wants to play :b3:

in this order. If :w4:

, Black will play :b5:

instead of "a". What now? White does not seem able to escape without allowing Black to peep with "b" and cut off the three White stones. For example if :w6:

, Black drives down and then plays "b" after White connects. This makes miai of "c" and "d".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . 9 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . 7 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O c b . 3 O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . a 4 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 6 d 2 8 O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

yeah · Post by **yeah** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:09 am

ez4u wrote:I think loons was closest with this diagram. But not yet spot on.
$$c Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . 5 O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 3 4 X O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . 2 . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . 5 O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 3 4 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . 2 . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think Black wants to play in this order. If , Black will play instead of "a". What now? White does not seem able to escape without allowing Black to peep with "b" and cut off the three White stones. For example if , Black drives down and then plays "b" after White connects. This makes miai of "c" and "d".
$$c Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X O . . 9 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . 7 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O c b . 3 O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . a 4 X O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . 6 d 2 8 O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . 9 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . 7 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O c b . 3 O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . a 4 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 6 d 2 8 O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And why not 4 at h14?

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:12 am

yeah wrote:
ez4u wrote:I think loons was closest with this diagram. But not yet spot on.
$$c Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . 5 O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 3 4 X O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . 2 . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . 5 O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 3 4 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . 2 . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think Black wants to play in this order. If , Black will play instead of "a". What now? White does not seem able to escape without allowing Black to peep with "b" and cut off the three White stones. For example if , Black drives down and then plays "b" after White connects. This makes miai of "c" and "d".
$$c Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X O . . 9 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . 7 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O c b . 3 O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . a 4 X O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . 6 d 2 8 O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . 9 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . 7 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O c b . 3 O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . a 4 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 6 d 2 8 O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And why not 4 at h14?

If

, then

forces

. After the exchange of :b7:

and

,

makes miai of "a" and "b" (Black has the atari at "c" if White connects against "b").

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . b O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . 7 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O a 9 . X O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . 6 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . c 4 O 8 O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

yeah · Post by **yeah** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:29 am

ez4u wrote:
yeah wrote:
ez4u wrote:I think loons was closest with this diagram. But not yet spot on.
$$c Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . 5 O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 3 4 X O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . 2 . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . 5 O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 3 4 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . 2 . O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think Black wants to play in this order. If , Black will play instead of "a". What now? White does not seem able to escape without allowing Black to peep with "b" and cut off the three White stones. For example if , Black drives down and then plays "b" after White connects. This makes miai of "c" and "d".
$$c Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X O . . 9 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . 7 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O c b . 3 O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . a 4 X O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . 6 d 2 8 O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . 9 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . 7 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O c b . 3 O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . a 4 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . 6 d 2 8 O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And why not 4 at h14?

If , then forces . After the exchange of and , makes miai of "a" and "b" (Black has the atari at "c" if White connects against "b").
$$c Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X O . . b O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . 7 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O a 9 . X O X X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . 6 X O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . c 4 O 8 O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . b O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . 7 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O a 9 . X O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . 6 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . c 4 O 8 O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Something is weird with that diagram. Stones missing.

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:07 am

yeah wrote:Something is weird with that diagram. Stones missing.

Here it is with all the moves. I thought it was OK. Is something missing? If so, where?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . X O . . b O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . 7 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X X O . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O a 9 . 3 O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . 6 X O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . c 4 2 8 O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . X O X X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X X X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

yeah · Post by **yeah** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:27 am

Hups I got confused.

Life In 19x19

Exciting problem to decide a game

Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game

Re: Exciting problem to decide a game