#143 1986 vs Nathan

Sur
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by Sur »

Nathan's goal looks dead to me. Even if it wasn't, it is definetely sealed in, which he hoped to avoid.
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1986
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now he is trying to break free, which is natural when being enclosed,

My reply is a hane, responding to the attachment

I could nobi (which is good shape also) and let him run around just cause im confident i can still keep him from making eyes. I know I got stones everywhere on this side of the board but i just dont want a wild group running around inside my moyo

He might go for the cut but im not worried about that either because i'm strong on this side
:study:
standing still means going backwards
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by Nathan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm70 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 2 . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . 6 X O X 3 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 2 4 X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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1986
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i think this is the correct side to block on, and now my mission is to make sure this group doesn't make life, so far he has 2 potential eyes... :study:
standing still means going backwards
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

1986 wrote:he has 2 potential eyes...
(a) and (b) are miai, so locally W is dead...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ . . . . . B X O a X X . |
$$ . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ . . O . . O X O O O b . |
$$ . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$--------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . 4 X O O |
$$ . . . . . B X O 1 X X . |
$$ . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ . . O . . O X O O O 2 . |
$$ . . O X X X X O X O 3 O |
$$ O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$--------------------------[/go]
...so let's see how B handles this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ . . . . . B X O . X X . |
$$ . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ . . O . . O X O O O . . |
$$ . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ . X . . . . 3 4 . 2 X 1 |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$--------------------------[/go]
Nathan
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by Nathan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


why not here
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by Aphelion »

Nathan wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


why not here


To Nathan:
I don't know, why don't you read and tell me.
Nathan
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by Nathan »

I think he has to go at either a or b otherwise I can get eyes in the corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . b a X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


after that I will read my options with o3

but probably something like below is the goal

edit.. This does not account for the fact that if he plays t8 I have to respond meaning he can ignore r7. So dont think its gonna work. Ill keep thinkin
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O 6 X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O 9 X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O 8 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . 3 X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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1986
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . 1 X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i was expecting him to take first but its ok, now this group just gained a liberty, and the dumpling still doesn't have eyes. my plan still is to keep this goup from living, as long as i take my time its a reachable goal... :study:
standing still means going backwards
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by Nathan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm74 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O 1 X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Another Forcing move to threaten to disconnect his group


all i can do is hope me messes up :sad:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm74 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O 1 X X 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X 4 5 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O 2 X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O 5 O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . 1 X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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1986
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by 1986 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm75 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


thats a nice way to take the stone becuse it threatens to cut, which i will protect as soon as i rob this eye in sente, if he ignores i cut/atari and cause some trouble :rambo:

im thinking he blocks the cut/atari
then i protect the cut , after that is his move :study:
standing still means going backwards
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by Nathan »

I resign


Thanks for the game!! Im excited to go through the comments.
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1986
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by 1986 »

Good Game :bow:
Thank you :salute:

i cant wait to read the comments either its the best part of the game :mrgreen: !

game comments:

i think i just had a fatser fuseki, and i was all over the board early in the game

starting with move 24 i dont think that was the right direction, maybe a hane instead and try to break out with the group you already had,

just because that whole fight after 24 was unproductive, i dont think you had enough space to play sabaki, make life and do some damage

but the opening makes the game hard to deal with for white

continue to walk the path of Go my brother and i will see u at the top :clap:

let me know when u are ready for a rematch :rambo:

now its time to focus on getting stronger :study:
standing still means going backwards
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1986
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by 1986 »

one thing i learned from going back to read the comments is i need to do way more varaitions, even though there is no quick way to do diagram variations and going past 10 moves is a pain and it takes a while to do, its just good to show variations, because the comments and feed back you get on your reading show u your flaws in your reading and thats something i need more of

i love seing the moves i missed
standing still means going backwards
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ez4u
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Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan

Post by ez4u »

After :b67: (marked), how does Black answer :w1: below? :blackeye:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . B . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . O O O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O X X X X O X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X X O . O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . 1 . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
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