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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #181 Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:28 pm 
Tengen
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sorry about not explaining my thought process
i was too busy lately.
i dont see any other picture than below variation.
i didnt trigger because my opponent sometimes plays moves that doesnt make any sense..
but this time i dont think he has any other choice.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 6 . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . 5 . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #182 Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:53 pm 
Judan

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Magicwand wrote:
i dont see any other picture than below variation.
i didnt trigger because my opponent sometimes plays moves that doesnt make any sense..
but this time i dont think he has any other choice.


I beg to differ ;-)
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #183 Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:23 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
i dont see any other picture than below variation.
i didnt trigger because my opponent sometimes plays moves that doesnt make any sense..
but this time i dont think he has any other choice.


I beg to differ ;-)


Black 1 at C8 instead?
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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #184 Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:19 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

@SpongeBob - Simply, that the lack of a time limit allows me to play a move that I feel is best locally, but that I don't need to burden myself right away on long-term ideas and plans I may have. It can be something I can postpone and think about on my drive to school, or when I'm trying to go to sleep. Maybe that's not the best explanation, but I hope you can get the jist of what I'm trying to convey.

Though while we're on the subject, I'd like to apologize for the occasional delays. Sometimes I'm just busy and want to take my mind off Go, yes, but sometimes (like now) when I'm in a situation where I'm not quite so sure where to play, I like to put it off and worry about it later - kind of like homework. Years and years of terrible procrastination habits does that to you.

So yes, this was a situation I had a hard time trying to decide. I basically boiled it down to 4 candidates (a, b, c, d):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . a b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c d . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | x O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I needed to find the move that tries to accomplish as much of the following:

1) Settle on the side for safety
2) Gain access to the center
3) Limit the strengthening of his group above mine
4) Ensure the safety of the two stones to allow endgame possibilities like 'x'

'b' was my ideal choice. My second ideal choice would be 'a', then 'd', then 'c'. Clearly, 'b' violates the 3rd criterion as, in general, attaching to anything helps strengthen. And 'b' isn't quite as great as 'a' when it comes to the 1st criterion, but when it comes to an overall balance of these 4 criteria, I feel 'b' is the best choice.
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Offline flOvermind
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #185 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:23 am 
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Magicwand wrote:
[...]
i dont see any other picture than below variation.
[...]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Araban wrote:
So yes, this was a situation I had a hard time trying to decide. I basically boiled it down to 4 candidates (a, b, c, d):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . a b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c d . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | x O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[...]

'b' was my ideal choice. My second ideal choice would be 'a', then 'd', then 'c'.


:lol:

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #186 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:43 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


that move can not be correct!
he is trying to stablize his group by attaching to my stone.
it is a technique but i dont think it is right at this situation.

i think he will try to cut as below..but i also have answer for that which i will reveal after his move..
not because i dont trust him but..he might not play that move then i do whole lots of post for no reason. i hate that.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . W X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Puppycakes
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #187 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:52 am 
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I get what you're saying, but I see it as useful because even if the sequence is never played, it shows weaker players things to consider in a similar position.Even if it isn't an exact sequence, sometimes a statement like, "I feel like I'm far enough ahead that I just have to be sure that I keep my groups solid, I should be ok." Or something like that.


Of course post what you want. I'm just saying that I don't think it's useless.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #188 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:05 pm 
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Puppycakes wrote:
At MW
I get what you're saying, but I see it as useful because even if the sequence is never played, it shows weaker players things to consider in a similar position.Even if it isn't an exact sequence, sometimes a statement like, "I feel like I'm far enough ahead that I just have to be sure that I keep my groups solid, I should be ok." Or something like that.


Of course post what you want. I'm just saying that I don't think it's useless.

if you request then i will explain. but i will not go in too much detail.
below is a variation i have in mind. i am not going to start complicated fight if i dont have to.
my assessment of below is that my opponent played useless move that killed his corner aji and got some more points in gote. i feel that i can get that much out of my sente and still win.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 6 . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O 4 . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . W X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #189 Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:42 pm 
Judan

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Hmmm, not sure I like Araban's move. As he says it is less good for settling on the side than my suggestion of a (glad to see he considered many moves), but is better for the centre. But why care about the centre? Black already has that thickness white generously gave him in the centre so white can't make anything there. To me settling fast is much more important.

I agree with Magicwand that black's crosscut is not great when white extends and sacrifices c12 in exchange for eating the 2 stones below. To me the obvious answer for black in terms of shape is the counter hane as below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If white simply connects then black connects, black is out to the centre better compared to my c8 suggestion, but with less eyespace (and more points/eyes for white). Not awful for black, but I prefer white. But it looks to me like white can play 2 ataris first as below and then black is in trouble as he can't capture d7. (Note that black can't consider trading with 75 at c9 as he can't capture d9 in a ladder.) Black could then cut at d6 to capture c6 and make a small life on the side, but then he's sacrificed d8 for no good reason I can see, and would have been better off playing c8 to settle initially.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 6 O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 1 2 . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline SpongeBob
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #190 Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:18 am 
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Araban wrote:
@SpongeBob ...

Yeah, got it. Obviously I am not playing enough turn based games to have noticed this myself.

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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #191 Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:43 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I find this to be a move that is unbearably difficult to explain concisely. And I'm sincere about it, not saying that out of laziness. The best I can do is that this move best ensures my group is stable while blocking White from taking away all of my base on the side. Actually, to be honest, I worry about my Go quite a bit - there are so many moves I play that I'd have a hard time explaining, and as Einstein said - "If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.". :(

This post by Solomon was liked by: Joaz Banbeck
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #192 Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:44 pm 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
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DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i was going to play as below..but changed my mind.
i think this is a point where i have to play strong.
if i dont...i think i am not taking an advantage of my current position.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #193 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:54 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: Capsule 4d
Tygem: 치킨까스 5d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think there is much to discuss with this move is there? Letting White get the ponnuki is just too much.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #194 Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:29 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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KGS: magicwand
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Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
his trouble is getting bigger.
it is not a ladder so he has to push and push.. after all that he still will have no life..

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #195 Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:21 am 
Judan
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If I were Araban, I'd be concerned about life. Below are some reflexive sequences by each side, and none of them look good. Perhaps more thought would yield two eyes, but right now, I don't see them.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X O 2 4 8 . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 1 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 8 O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 X O 2 4 . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | 9 . 0 1 3 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It is a long road ahead...
Attachment:
cart.jpg
cart.jpg [ 65.13 KiB | Viewed 10089 times ]

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Offline joppon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #196 Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:54 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 92
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Was liked: 1
Rank: OGS 8 kyu
Diag 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 2 4 9 . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 3 5 6 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . 8 7 . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

B at 'a'.

Diag 2a
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 2 4 6 . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 3 5 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . 0 7 . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 9 . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Diag 2b
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O 1 X 3 4 6 , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | 9 O O . 2 O 7 5 8 . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Diag 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 2 4 6 a . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 3 5 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . 8 7 . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Then B 'a'.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #197 Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:26 am 
Tengen

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OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Joppon, a quick problem with your analysis, I think. White at B6 will be sente (or quite close to it) in several of them.

Edit: this was a typo. I meant C6.

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Last edited by hyperpape on Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline joppon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #198 Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:37 am 
Dies with sente

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Rank: OGS 8 kyu
Hyperpage, I don't see what you mean.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #199 Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:00 am 
Tengen

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That's because it's a typo. C6.

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Offline joppon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #200 Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:34 am 
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Sorry, I guess you mean B7. Or maybe even D6. Is the stone at D7 so important?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X O 4 6 . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm01 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X C 5 . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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