149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:24 pm

Happy New Year!

I'm now ready to play our Malkovich game as promised on my introduction thread. I guessed even so take black. Japanese rules, 6.5 komi, open book/database.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Have fun!

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:58 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

gg

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:24 pm

Psychee · Post by **Psychee** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:48 pm

illluck wrote:
I really love Magicwand's confidence My impression is that Uberdude is at least slightly stronger in slow games, but I'm not a good judge since I've never won against either :p

In any case, this should be an exciting and didactic game

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:00 pm

Phelan · Post by **Phelan** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:14 pm

Psychee wrote:
illluck wrote:
I really love Magicwand's confidence My impression is that Uberdude is at least slightly stronger in slow games, but I'm not a good judge since I've never won against either :p

In any case, this should be an exciting and didactic game

I'll put my bet on Uberdude.

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:03 pm

Good game guys.

tj86430 · Post by **tj86430** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:26 pm

This should be exciting.

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:45 pm

The only possible result

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:37 pm

1986 · Post by **1986** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:19 am

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:47 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Wow, look at all those hidden comments, I wonder what they say! :scratch:

I played at the London Open tournament last week (didn't do very well, played too slowly so kept throwing away games I was leading with mistakes in overtime) and was reviewing one of my games when a friend came over to watch and asked to see the start of the game. We rewound to the position with 4 corners played, but he said 'No, all the way back, the order of the corners is important' which might seem a bit picky but he does have a point. So as an homage to him, here's far too much discussion about corners.

Magicwand's move at d4 is diagonal from mine, so this stops me from playing a diagonal (tasuki) fuseki. There used to by a guy on KGS who had as his game note "no diagonal games" and then if you were black and played diagonal he would resign. Every so often the EGR would discuss his stupidity as he can just played white 2 diagonally to prevent it, but I prefer to think of him as a genius troll ;-)

.

If I play 4-4 as move 2 for white I will generally play it in the upper left. This is because if black then plays 3-4 in the lower right he could be aiming to set up a Chinese or Kobayashi or Mini-Chinese opening, which white might may wish to avoid (of course there's nothing wrong with letting your opponent make these formations, it's just a personal preference, for me it depends on my mood). One way to thwart black's plans to play these openings is then to not play a 4-4 in the lower left. I expect Magicwand will play 2 4-4s whatever black does so it's not relevant to him, but here is the thinking with diagrams:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Anti-Chinese opening $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White 4 doesn't actually stop black from making the Chinese opening (like an approach to :b3:

would), but stops it indirectly by making it bad to make it. The theory is that with the shimari of :w6:

white limits black's influence over the lower right corner of the board, and the moyo off the 3-4 is the focal point of the Chinese opening. So instead of :b5:

at r9 black will probably approach white in the lower left and it's a different game. I got this idea from the excellent [sl=ADictionaryOfModernFusekiTheKoreanStyle]A Dictionary Of Modern Fuseki, The Korean Style[/sl].

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Kobayashi opening $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . a 7 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is the Kobayashi opening (there's a variant with 7 at a) and stopping it is as simple as playing :w4:

at d3 because then black can't approach from the lower side. You can of course stop it even having played a 4-4 by pincering or approaching black's 3-4 in the lower right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Mini-chinese opening $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Stopping the mini-Chinese is the same idea as the Kobayashi, don't play a 4-4 to avoid giving the f3 approach, or pincer or counter-approach when approached. The classical theory is it's better to play the d3 3-4 point than the c4 one as the later means there are facing 3-4 points, and then whoever has sente (black) to approach gets a nice position.

So by playing his 4-4 in the lower left for move 2 Magicwand can't move it to the 3-4 to prevent me threatening to make these common opening shapes. Anyway, for this game I think I will go for a modern variant of the Chinese, of which more later if Magicwand plays d16 as I expect.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:28 pm

D16. Star pt

emeraldemon · Post by **emeraldemon** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:06 pm

Diagram:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:59 am

Uberdude :
incase you missed...it is your move
i usually dont take to long to make a move..

Life In 19x19

149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

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Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

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Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand