153. Simba vs OtakuViking

User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Simba wrote:I kind of instinctively feel this move is wrong for black, but I'm not entirely sure why (perhaps it's simply too slow)
Indeed :b25: is too slow, too small.
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

For Simba, after the game,
( For beginners. My emphases. )
Simba wrote:it makes it a lot easier for a pincer stone to make something of itself if I approach from one space away. He has a choice of pincers ... to make some kind of sabaki invasion in. And if white pincered then lived in my area on the left..., I could end up with very few points there. ... I would get some thickness on the outside as compensation... but it's not immediately obvious how that would be used.
Very honest and accurate reply by Simba. :clap:
It shows some common (?) misunderstanding and fear at these levels: Simba wants to use his powerful :b17: ponnuki
to make territory directly, and this also explains why he played :b25: (which is too slow).
IF B were able to turn the left side into territory with only one more move, it would be very efficient;
but as yithril pointed out, it's not territory yet (even after :b25:).
User avatar
OtakuViking
Lives in gote
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:54 am
Rank: 6D Tygem
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: pluspy
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Post by OtakuViking »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not sure what his plan was with the endgame move of 25, but this attack will let me take control of the game (I hope). I think I should get a favourable result from this even if he gets sente to follow up his endgame move. He might have thought it was sente, or that the three stones were strong enough because of blacks strong position in the lower left. However, in my mind these 3 stones present a nice target for attack. I considered playing a kakari probe on the upper right corner before attacking, but I feel that he could ignore it, so let's start the fun!
illluck
Lives in sente
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:07 am
Rank: OGS 2d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Has thanked: 736 times
Been thanked: 239 times

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Post by illluck »

Oo. Interesting move, but feels jealous - not sure who is being attacked here after black responds (perhaps G14?). Personally I'd just O17.
User avatar
Celebrir
Lives in gote
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:22 am
Rank: German 1k
GD Posts: 0
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Post by Celebrir »

In my oppinnion W is asking to be attacked here. This seems far to close to B's strength. F12 or E11 jump to my mind without thinking to much about the consequences. G14 might be nice as well
Simba
Lives with ko
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:54 am
Rank: 6d KGS
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Post by Simba »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Time to kill. That looks way too deep. I was expecting he'd play something like F10.
User avatar
OtakuViking
Lives in gote
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:54 am
Rank: 6D Tygem
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: pluspy
Location: Denmark
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Post by OtakuViking »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



This could turn out so many different ways, but If he plays hane on top I will clamp. If he cuts the stone off and captures, I will gladly sacrifice and gain strength. Let's see what he has in mind.
Simba
Lives with ko
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:54 am
Rank: 6d KGS
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: 153. Simba vs OtakuViking

Post by Simba »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 B-1 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this move is nice and solid. First instinct was to hane on top of his 28, but I'd really need to fix the aji around F13 with another move potentially - getting separated would be kind of sucky. This doesn't give white any cool sabaki cross-cutty/counter-hane type options either. I think white went too deep and I'm definitely looking to attack very severely here.
Post Reply