Katsura and Slate and Shell--A Risky Combo?

[schwartzseer]

I've been considering a katsura wood board with slate & shell stones, but I am concerned that the hardness of the katsura wood would be detrimental to the shell stones over the long haul. As I'm sure everyone is aware, of the four "chosen go woods" (kaya, katsura, hiba, and agathis, in rough order of cost/desirability) only katsura is deciduous (the others coniferous), thus katsura is a hard wood, which translates to less "give" when snapping stones. Does anyone have personal experience (or professional citations) that would say "yes, stick with glass for katsura" or "shell is swell"? Thanks in advance!

[oren]

I have that combination and like it a lot.

If you need a "professional" opinion, I would email kurokigoishi.

http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/index.html

[Mike Novack]

..... only katsura is deciduous (the others coniferous), thus katsura is a hard wood........ Thanks in advance!

Keep in mind should other species of trees be discussed that although we call coniferous trees "softwood" and deciduous trees "hardwood" that is just a general designation. The wood of the average "softwood" is softer than the wood of the average "hardwood" but do not assume that all "softwoods" are softer than all "hardwoods".

I know little of Japanese species. But to use examples from here, both yellow pine and hemlock are coniferous but harder than the average hardwood. Both basswood and tulip poplar are deciduous but as soft as the softer softwoods. I chose those last two examples because might be available in very large diameter trees.

[gowan]

I have used thinnish (8.0 mm) slate and shell stones on a katsura board for 30 plus years with no damage to the stones. I don't think katsura is all that hard myself. My katsura board has a surface with many shallow, small dents from playing stones on it. Clearly the wood is softer than the shell. The only times I have had shell stones break were when one fell off a table onto a concrete floor and another time when my cat knocked the bowl of white stones off a shelf onto the floor. In that incident I think it was the stone to stone impact that caused the damage. Speaking of which, it is customary in Japan to put some sort of cushion, such as a folded cloth, in the bottom of the bowl containing the shell stones so as to absorb the shock when stones are put (or dropped) back into the bowl.

edit: By the way, if you have a really hard wood, such as oak, sliding the shell stones on the surface might risk scratching the shell surface. And you should keep your equipment clean, too.

[ez4u]

The fact that katsura is one of the traditional woods used in Go boards should tip you off that this is a non-issue.

[schwartzseer]

I want to thank everyone who responded, each and every comment was on target. I appreciate the personal experiences folks shared, as well as the advice. I took Oren's suggestion and looked at the KG site, and lo and behold they have a "beginners' set" with a folding katsura board, plastic bowls, and 7mm slate & shell stones http://www.kurokigoishi.co.jp/english/o ... set06.html. Now there isn't any doubt in my mind--shell is swell! Now I just need to find quality S & S at a rock-bottom price--not too hard, eh? Sometimes S & S shows up on Ebay, but usually very thin (5 or 6mm) or "vintage" (many chipped, all shell stones yellowed like smoker's fingernails)--but, I have to be patient! That's how I got my vintage Ishi press 15mm Katsura board, and a set of Kuri wood bowls (with glass stones that chip just by lookin' at 'em, thus my search for S & S). Thanks again to all posters!

[bogiesan]

Now I just need to find quality S & S at a rock-bottom price--not too hard, eh? Sometimes S & S shows up on Ebay, but usually very thin (5 or 6mm) or "vintage" (many chipped, all shell stones yellowed like smoker's fingernails)--but, I have to be patient!

I do not believe you will find a bargain on ebay; those days seem to be long behind us. The only bargains on go equipment you will find are probably from other go players, not ebay.
I have purchased at least four sets of slate and shell stones directly from Kuroki Goishi Ten from their outlet listings. I paid for the least expensive shipping. They were each an excellent bargain and the long wait was not too bad, especially when the interesting packages finally arrived.

Put a jar by your go board and put your spare change in it. Try skipping three or four lattes a week and put the saved cash in the jar. Tip yourself after serving a nice meal. In a few months you will be able to order your set directly from KGT.

[schwartzseer]

Now I just need to find quality S & S at a rock-bottom price--not too hard, eh? Sometimes S & S shows up on Ebay, but usually very thin (5 or 6mm) or "vintage" (many chipped, all shell stones yellowed like smoker's fingernails)--but, I have to be patient!

I do not believe you will find a bargain on ebay; those days seem to be long behind us. The only bargains on go equipment you will find are probably from other go players, not ebay.
I have purchased at least four sets of slate and shell stones directly from Kuroki Goishi Ten from their outlet listings. I paid for the least expensive shipping. They were each an excellent bargain and the long wait was not too bad, especially when the interesting packages finally arrived.

Put a jar by your go board and put your spare change in it. Try skipping three or four lattes a week and put the saved cash in the jar. Tip yourself after serving a nice meal. In a few months you will be able to order your set directly from KGT.

Yes, I have to agree that Ebay is not the place for slate & shell go stone bargains--I was the starting offer on a "vintage" Zelkova bowl set with 7mm "standard" stones that is currently on Ebay, but the bidding has quickly escalated past what I think it is worth, especially given that KGT outlet stones of higher quality and larger size (7.5mm) are currently available for ~US$114 + s/h.

Regarding your "go stones savings plan," sadly I don't much "luxury" to cut back on (I already carpool, brown-bag it to work, eat out only once or twice a year at holidays, limit myself to one home-brewed cup coffee daily, and take only one week vacation locally), so my time-horizon will have to be more than a few months

Thanks again for all your suggestions--they've been much appreciated!!

[schwartzseer]

Just a quick followup with a dissenting view I found online (http://www.kiseido.com/go_equipment.htm):

Katsura is the most widely used wood for boards in Japan (both for traditional boards with legs and for folding boards). In the past, it has been more abundantly available than kaya, and it is hard and durable. However, traditional katsura boards are always made with an itame grain and they lack the color and brightness of kaya boards. Moreover, because of the hardness of this wood, if one wishes to use expensive shell and slate stones with these boards, it is advisable not to strike the board too strongly with them as the stones could chip [emphasis added]. The cheaper jitsuyo-grade stones are more appropriate to use with these boards. The yuki-grade stones are the appropriate ones to use with kaya boards.

Since I can't afford "high quality" S&S this won't be an issue