Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

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Numsgil
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Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
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$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
Even game, 6.5 komi.

Here's my nigiri:
:white: :white: :white:
Good luck!
Last edited by Numsgil on Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Joaz says: Don't run.
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tj86430
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by tj86430 »

This should be interesting. I don't know if it will be more interesting than Magicwand's games, but interesting nevertheless.
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Post by EdLee »

:)
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shapenaji
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by shapenaji »

I guessed even, so you can start us off. Have a good game!
(Malk comments are going to be odd here, but I have some strategies in mind here, life and death in a corridor is going to be the crazy part, where you can live either on the top or the bottom.)
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by shapenaji »

As an interesting side note, I think komi is probably less than 6.5, most territories will likely be considerably smaller here, so the absolute score will likely be lower. That being the case, proper komi is probably only like 3.5, but it shouldn't make a huge difference in this game.
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by Numsgil »

Hehe, I don't think the game will be decided by komi anyway (because I will crush you! :rambo: )

...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
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$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
As I said in my other game, I think any corner move is probably fine on a board like this.
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shapenaji
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by shapenaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
Seeing as there was a whole thread about it, I'd like to play this, the center is nonexistent, and the side closer to the middle will always be easier to reduce. I don't think 4x4 is a good play on this board.
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm3
$$ --------------------------------------------
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$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ --------------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 9 . . |
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$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
Not for you :)
After the trigger: The bottom and top walls makes this thickness interesting, more so than on a normal board. White is even less advised to play near it than usual. On the right side an interesting thing is happening: I'm getting 4th line territory counting from the "ceiling" edge.

My guess is that he'll realize this and not play out the full trigger, though. Maybe he'll be all 6D on me and play some obscure joseki variation and force me in to a fight.
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by perceval »

i hava a dilemma... i really want to read the hidden, but the general considerations on the board shape would be an help for my own game, and numsgil cant read either hidden .. so i ll refrain from reading the hidden in this thread. After all, it is not unthinkable that the mere 12 stones or so of rank difference between shape and myself might,maybe, allow him to make slightly more informed deductions on the effect of the board shape on the game. on the othe hand not following this thread at all would be hard.
i almost played as shapeandaji.. because the thickness doesnt help in the center..
but i wonder if here whats near the wall is not as good as territory ?
So in the end i refrained from it, because.
after all i can still wait for this invasion as i can make it later unless he spend a gote move reinforcing.
Numsgil could have resisted by just taking another corner: he would still have a wall after shape plays again in the invaded corner, shape would have a bigger corner, but numsgil would have been the first in the next corner.
Nums could also have tried for one of those vafiations that gives up a bigger corner for sente ?
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by shapenaji »

Triggered and follow-up
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
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$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
It's actually almost easier to live here, which is why I don't value thickness as much, usually, you make a weak group and they can chase it and build something, in this case, they can't. Then you might ask "Well, yeah, but you've got nowhere to go, don't you just die?

My suspicion is that, instead of having the ability to run out, you can either live on the top edge or the bottom edge, these will, in general, be miai, so it's going to be bloody hard to kill.

That being the case, I'm playing a shinogi strategy, invade everywhere and win by komi (which as I said, is probably too much)
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . 1 . . . X . X O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . X . . |
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$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
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$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
Not for you:
I suspect he and I have very different ideas about how to play on this board :P

This is the perfect distance from the 4-4 thickness (remember that the star stones aren't in the same place relative to the corners on this board, since the base board size is 21x21). Combine that with a good approach to his latest move, and I don't mind playing this at all.

I'm not as sure about my corner placement in the new corner, but I think it's the best of the few other choices. The top is blighted so I don't mind being low facing that direction. The right side is still open, so I'd like to be high in that direction. So 3-4 seems reasonable.
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by daniel_the_smith »

IMO, :b15: is overconcentrated.
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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shapenaji
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by shapenaji »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . W , . . . . . . , . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . X . . |
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$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]
Time to test my hypothesis, I want him to jump in and start fighting here, I've already said I don't like the 4x4, playing at "a" invites "b" which would settle things too nicely, expecting a pincer at "c" and then I'll do my tesuji-ninja thing
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
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Tactics yes, Tact no...
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speedchase
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Re: Numsgil (3k) vs shapenaji (6d) - Donut Board

Post by speedchase »

daniel_the_smith wrote:IMO, :b15: is overconcentrated.
in a normal game, definitely, here it is so much easier to live anywhere, that making moves that would be normal in a regular game would be too small here
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