149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:44 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:57 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:00 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:08 pm

Ok, all going to plan, now it's another big decision time.

But first, something about white's last move (hmmm, I am commenting (and reading) for the both of us!). I thought maybe Magicwand would try to capture me on a larger scale with c9 and e9, but this is an overplay as the aji is really bad, for example I have the sneaky ko shown below for later. Cut at c7 and then extension to c8 should white wish to spend another move is correct.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Greedy and bad aji: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . 4 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , 2 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My choices. First is l4 to further nullify his j4 stone and develop the lower side. As I wrote before, his extension to j3 is rather annoying for shape and l4 lets me kill it instead of having to answer painfully. k4 would do the same thing and is more solid, but l4 seems plenty solid enough and is bigger and makes it harder for white to get a group in the gap between it and the lower right corner. In fact even l4 has a whiff of overconcentration, but it is the shape point. Next white might play honte at c8 which gives me sente to further build the lower-right moyo. Or he could come in somewhere like q5, I attack and likely end with something nice and sente for c8, or end with something really nice and gote.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Solid building $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , 5 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, if we each build our moyos, then h7 becomes a key boundary point and if the following happens I might feel a bit sad to get pushed here. It makes l4 seem rather overconcentrated, but even so j4 still has some aji which makes white's k7 cut a bit more lively. Maybe j9 could even be atari at k9 even though it's bad style to push even more. We might even up pushing all the way across to q16 and we each get half the board!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Boundary point $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . 6 7 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . O 4 5 8 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X 9 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , 1 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I might push at h7 now. If white extends I think that's a good exchange for me and then I can live at c8 (which takes away what white's extension was building in a nice rhythm). Notice the good timing of 31 and then 33: if white captures after 31 I sneak into the corner with an atari at b6. Instead of c8 I could maybe l4 but the h7 push makes l4 feel a little unnecessary.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Push, extend, c8 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 3 6 . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 7 4 O X 0 . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white ignores my push, say to play c8, then I hane at g8 and get power in the centre which is fine. However, I worry about white answering with hane. If I hane back white's double hane is powerful and makes me sad.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Double hane $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I could cut. If white extends to the right I play the c8 atari and this time use the solid connection at d8 rather than b8 block for my sente there as strong shape for the centre fighting is now more important that the territory on the left side. I'm fine with this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Push, hane, cut, extend right, fight! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 7 . . 3 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 O X . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White could also extend the other way. now g9 is not so good as it's pushing form behind with few liberties. I could just extend down the side as white can't capture my cutting stone yet. White extending this way does do less damage to my right side potential so that's a plus which sort of balances out the difficulty of g8.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm25 Push, hane, cut, extend up, hmmmm $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 7 . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 O X . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My 3rd choice is c8 immediately. But that's going against my whole plan of building the lower side so I dismiss that without much more thought. So it's L4 or h7, I think I'll sleep on it.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:41 pm

my opponent's thinking time...i have no idea what he is thinking. i can never spend more than 5 second on a obvious move. even if it is not obvious i will play what seems correct and that usually works.

i have no idea what is correct joseki here.
i only play this because i remember that shape from 15 or 20 years ago.
and my move is only move that makes any sense.

what i mean by abvious: below trade is a no lose trade that should not wait IMO.
i have a feeling he will play that move 3 days later and wait another 5 days for next move :bow:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 4 X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

he should not think about what to play now.
he should exchange above and think about next move.

i am guessing 6 days later i will see below shape

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 4 X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

cyclops · Post by **cyclops** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:26 pm

@mw and observers

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:25 pm

No point hiding this...

Back on move 7 I mentioned I was considering a 2nd approach at c14. I used this idea (with a white one-space low pincer instead of two-space high) in a tournament game yesterday. I think I got a good result, mainly because my opponent blocked at c4 which is gote instead of d3. When I pressed at d11 I felt great. Maybe this is one time white should answer e14 at e12, a favourite trick of twoeye 7d on KGS, but here it seems about the only move that gives white a chance to not look flat and rubbish. You can also laugh at how I killed myself with the throw in at s2 later (in overtime). It's strangely similar to this weeks gogameguru problem (http://gogameguru.com/weekly-go-problems-week-23/) in which there's a very tempting throw in that's wrong.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:38 pm

As for this game...

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:12 pm

cyclops wrote:@mw and observers
I am not allowed to reveal this, but Uberdude is thinking about the slowest way, thinking time included, to grill you

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:15 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , 5 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:32 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O O X . O , X . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

logan · Post by **logan** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:35 pm

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:09 am

where is my opponent????

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:28 am

Magicwand wrote:where is my opponent????

According to his profile, he was here just yesterday. Have you tried sending him a PM?

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:02 pm

Magicwand wrote:where is my opponent????

reading the game to its end. It was going well, but there were complications around 176...

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149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

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Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand