trihexagonal go

For discussing go rule sets and rule theory
User avatar
emeraldemon
Gosei
Posts: 1744
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 1:33 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 287 times

trihexagonal go

Post by emeraldemon »

There was a thread a while back about alternative tilings for go (viewtopic.php?f=45&t=1163&hilit=hexagon&start=20).

I was thinking about this again, and I like the trihexagonal tiling:

game2.png
game2.png (49.43 KiB) Viewed 17393 times

Can you spot the snapback?

This has the nice property that each point has 4 liberties, and it's uniform. Also it seems like 6 stones make life in the corner:

twoeyes.png
twoeyes.png (31.8 KiB) Viewed 17393 times
User avatar
cyclops
Lives in sente
Posts: 801
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 3:38 pm
Rank: KGS 7 kyu forever
GD Posts: 460
Location: Amsterdam (NL)
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 107 times
Contact:

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by cyclops »

I had to convince myself that your trihexagonal go board is not equivalent the our normal square go board. But of course it isn't. In normal go two neighbouring points don't share a common neighbour in trihexagonal go they do. I like your idea!
tj86430
Gosei
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:42 am
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
GD Posts: 0
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 129 times

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by tj86430 »

Interesting. When are we going to see first trihexagonalevich?
Offending ad removed
User avatar
perceval
Lives in gote
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:35 am
Rank: 7K KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: tictac
Has thanked: 52 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by perceval »

a bit off topic but i worked on this lattice (called the kagome lattice -from a japanese name for basket or something) during my physics day and the geometric properties are crazy ,and as a result the physics properties of the heisenberg model on it are crazy too (the ground state might have residual entropy at T=0 because it remains ennormously degenerated ). it would be very very different from a square lattice even if coordinance is 4 too: for example it is not bipartite ie you cannot divide it into 2 sublattices where no 2 summit on the same sublattice are niegihbors (this is trivial with a square lattice )

in some sense you always have bad shape: a 2 stone chain have only 5 lib instead of 6 in the square lattices. an empty triangle have 7 libs on the square, but a "full triangle" (3 stones of same color on same triangle) have 5 on the kagome.

making eyes in the center would be near impossible: you need at least 9 stones to enclose a single eye and be connected (vs 7 on the square lattice) and 12 stones to be alive in the center

on the other hand seki might be easier to get
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
User avatar
emeraldemon
Gosei
Posts: 1744
Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 1:33 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 287 times

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by emeraldemon »

tj86430 wrote:Interesting. When are we going to see first trihexagonalevich?


I'd like to try it, but I'm not sure if there's an easy way to do the diagrams. For these I'm adding the stones manually in inkscape (svg editor). It's not too difficult, but it does require editing in another program.

perceval wrote:making eyes in the center would be near impossible: you need at least 9 stones to enclose a single eye and be connected (vs 7 on the square lattice) and 12 stones to be alive in the center


What about this shape?

centerlife.png
centerlife.png (26.38 KiB) Viewed 17296 times
Tryss
Lives in gote
Posts: 502
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 1:07 pm
Rank: KGS 2k
GD Posts: 100
KGS: Tryss
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 153 times

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by Tryss »

And you only need 4 stone to be alive in the acute corner (the straight line is enough) : it's a cute corner :mrgreen:
User avatar
cyclops
Lives in sente
Posts: 801
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 3:38 pm
Rank: KGS 7 kyu forever
GD Posts: 460
Location: Amsterdam (NL)
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 107 times
Contact:

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by cyclops »

In Esmeraldons first diagram can black connect his left group to his lower right group? I believe he can not.
hyperpape
Tengen
Posts: 4382
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 3:24 pm
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
Has thanked: 499 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by hyperpape »

How does that work Tryss? I can't see it.
tj86430
Gosei
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:42 am
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
GD Posts: 0
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 129 times

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by tj86430 »

hyperpape wrote:How does that work Tryss? I can't see it.

The second points from the corner are miai.
Offending ad removed
tromp
Beginner
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:51 pm
Rank: EGF 2 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: tromp
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by tromp »

hyperpape wrote:How does that work Tryss? I can't see it.


The two "1-2" points are miai for separating the corner space
into two eyes. So it's not Benson alive, but alive it is.

-John
User avatar
HermanHiddema
Gosei
Posts: 2011
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:08 am
Rank: Dutch 4D
GD Posts: 645
Universal go server handle: herminator
Location: Groningen, NL
Has thanked: 202 times
Been thanked: 1086 times

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by HermanHiddema »

Arguably, I would guess any single stone on an otherwise empty board is "alive" by that measure :)
User avatar
christian freeling
Dies with sente
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:54 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: netherlands
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by christian freeling »

I don't want to spoil the fun, but this idea has been implemented long ago in Medusa.
You can find the game at [sl=Medusa]Sensei's[/sl] and it is also featured in R. Wayne Schmittberger's 'New Rules for Classic Games' (John Wiley & Sons, Inc. New York; ISBN 0-471-53621-0).
Last edited by christian freeling on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
cogito ergo erro
User avatar
daal
Oza
Posts: 2508
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:30 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 1304 times
Been thanked: 1128 times

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by daal »

I don't know how to render it, but a spherical trihexagoal board would be pretty cool.
Patience, grasshopper.
User avatar
HermanHiddema
Gosei
Posts: 2011
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:08 am
Rank: Dutch 4D
GD Posts: 645
Universal go server handle: herminator
Location: Groningen, NL
Has thanked: 202 times
Been thanked: 1086 times

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by HermanHiddema »

christian freeling wrote:I don't want to spoil the fun, but this idea has been implemented long ago in Medusa.
You can find the game at [sl=Medusa]Sensei's[/sl] and it is also featured in R. Wayne Schmittberger's 'New Rules for Classic Games' (John Wiley & Sons, Inc. New York; ISBN 0-471-53621-0).


Playing go on other graphs is such a obvious idea that I believe any claims of anteriority are pretty pointless. :)
User avatar
christian freeling
Dies with sente
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:54 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: netherlands
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:

Re: trihexagonal go

Post by christian freeling »

HermanHiddema wrote:Playing go on other graphs is such a obvious idea that I believe any claims of anteriority are pretty pointless. :)

I hope factual information bearing on the subject isn't. Medusa isn't 'Go on another graph' either but a fairly exotic variant quietly orbiting the outer fringes of the Golar system. Before anyone accuses me of claiming it's a big deal, we never even made an applet for it at mindsports.
cogito ergo erro
Post Reply