Can I get a quote on some books?

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RobertJasiek
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Re: Can I get a quote on some books?

Post by RobertJasiek »

oren wrote:I would also say it's well written.
Do you mean the go contents or the English?

Concerning the language, maybe the translation is very good but the text itself contains too much useless phrases such as the following examples from Vol. 1:

p. 160 Dia. 289: "The moves to 6 result."

p. 161 Dia. 295: "Black must answer 3 at 4, whereupon White plays 5 and 7."

***

Is the Ishida's English actually that good? Proofreaders of my books have criticised over-efficient phrases like "If 4 and 5, [...]" (Ishida 1, p. 159, Dia. 284) for using numbers without description.

So if you do refer to the language, please explain why such examples are, IYO, good English...!
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oren
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Re: Can I get a quote on some books?

Post by oren »

RobertJasiek wrote: So if you do refer to the language, please explain why such examples are, IYO, good English...!
As I said, I don't own it and have only read it at the go center to go over some questions I've had on joseki. I've never found the explanations awkward or hard to follow. I found the descriptions useful and fairly good detail.

At home I have the new Takao set in Japanese, so I can't comment much on that one either.
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Re: Can I get a quote on some books?

Post by RobertJasiek »

oren wrote:to go over some questions I've had on joseki. I've never found the explanations awkward or hard to follow. I found the descriptions useful and fairly good detail.
So you have used it as a dictionary, to look up only exactly something specific? For that purpose every dictionary would do, if only it happens to have the variation you are searching. But why do you need the text? Aren't the diagrams enough for that?

I used the Ishida for learning and (more or less) understanding all those josekis (and some major variations) in it. For that purpose it is written badly. At that time, I needed to read the Ishida thrice in succession to succeed, i.e. go through the diagrams' moves thrice. The text was of little help, except as a source of keywords from which I could then guess some more general strategic concept. So above 95% of the study was my own effort applied to the diagrams' moves and the keywords. Such a book I do not call "well written" but "badly written". The concept of which contents is buried in diagrams, piles of diagrams and superfluous texts is good though; Ishida made a good selection (for his time and the intention to show also a good number of complicated failure variations).

A good selection alone does not equal good writing though. It merely means that your pure quick dictionary lookup or my extra eager repetitive study could work.

You say "fairly good detail". If you mean the diagram variations, ok; there is some detail (for the kyu learner). If you mean the text, no; apart from what the diagrams show and ladder hints or such, the text hardly offers more than keywords. E.g., Vol. 1. p. 132 Dia. 164 "the standard tesuji of 3 to 7" offers the keyword-like hint that there is a particular tesuji kind worth remembering as a tesuji (here the informed reader recognises what he may have seen elsewhere: the, what we - not the Ishida - call 'driving tesuji').
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