Indeed.

I brought my boy along one evening, it was too long for him though. He got quite bored with it. That said when he came home he told me he was going to do a load of go problems, play a lot of games and then crush me over the board.

That's fear too .. that'd she'd get bored .. and when she gets bored .. watch out!

But want/need to do more for her. She's already a comparatively merciless game player, seeing a clear path to victory. I want to give her the challenge of a lifetime. Small steps will do for now.

Add me on KGS and we can organise a 9x9 game between them sometime, I think they'd both enjoy it. Beyond that, teach her the rules, warn her about losing a lot and start her at 30k on KGS.

Will do!

I've got her to thank in getting me to dig out my board, my books and finally work to start shaking off the rust. I've not played much if at all since they were born. Tomorrow is my first club meeting in years.

Hehe, I'm telling my wife that "I'm doing it all for the children!" How can she possibly object?!

I was a bit harder on him tonight and killed two of his groups, he got a bit upset, he really doesn't like losing. I wanted to show him that he needs to think about his groups' survival though. Next time I'll go a lot easier. He really needs opponents his own level too though to keep his confidence up. But equally he needs to learn that losing isn't the end of the world also, video games are too easy on kids.

If all else fails, just forbid them from playing (=

Easiest way to get a child interested in something is to tell them they shouldn't be doing it.

Eh, he was demanding to do GoChild and play 9x9 games today (he can beat me with 4 stones when I'm playing fast at least) and enjoying them a lot and is starting to get philosophical about losing. It's all about balance though, I'm letting him explore it at his own pace. I might get some of my stronger friends on KGS to give him a few 9x9 games to keep things interesting for him and so he sees a wide variety of styles.

For those who have a child who plays go, how did you get them interested in the first place? Do you have a board that you keep out and replay games, did they see you getting together with friends to play, did they see games on the computer? Or did you just say "wanna learn this cool game" at some point?

I ask because my selfish side can't help but notice that I'd have more time for Go down the road if it was a wholesome family activity instead of a ridiculous hobby. Eigghead has the right idea.

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Occupy Babel!

My son asked me what I was doing on the computer, then asked the rules, then I showed him the basics of playing, then he started watching my games or high dan games that I might be watching on the computer where he starts kibitzing. Now he's started kibitzing when I play someone in the house, which is ok but his enthusiasm for it gets the better of him and he starts playing out variations on the board midgame with his finger and imaginary stones. This is rather annoying but cute. We had to bring in rules about never touching the board when someone else is playing and so on.

He's always shown an interest in whatever games I play though. As soon as I taught him the basics of go, he demanded to be shown the rules of chess. They're like magpies at 5, he'll settle on some game or interest and I'll encourage him, until then I just make sure he's exposed to whatever he shows interest in.


Now he wants to do tsumego.

The biggest issue is setting up a game that is both useful for teaching him and gives him a chance of winning. I'm experimenting with high negative komi even 9x9 games at the moment. He gets very discouraged if he loses all the time which is hard to avoid in go.

if you have an apple device use, they might enjoy this new app from the nihon ki-in. there are 5 pictures of the app if you scroll to side. it is very cute and likely to be helpful

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ri-ben-q ... 53034?mt=8

translation by google


EDIT: this app is in english and japanese

What I've learned:

Show a 5 year old how a ladder works. They'll then spend hours creating them over and over on a go board.

Well, my 2 year old daughter asked what I was doing while I was playing on DGS tonight, and then announced that she wanted to play. So I showed her how captures worked in Smartgo (iPad version). No idea what if anything she understood, and she couldn't handle the way you magnify the board to place a stone.

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Occupy Babel!

My daughter is 2 years 5 months and Iikes to join in on play on Champion Go. It's not auspicious through. She loves to play on the first line... (no magnifying glass on 9x9 so it's fairly trivial for her to grasp)

In progression news, my son is playing every couple of days, which is fine with me. He still loses to me constantly on 5 stones on 9x9 but has improved a good bit but is down to 4 stones 9x9 versus SmartGo on the iPad. He's become a bit obsessed with bad shape and seems to love playing out bad shape on a board and showing how it leads to capture. I'm not really trying to guide him much beyond showing him different shapes and connections and how to cut the different connections and letting him cut them in games versus me for practice and I'm letting him do whatever seems to entertain him which is mostly setting up big captures and ladders on a go board right now! He wants to go to the go club again and play some go though which pleases me. (I'm going to give him another bit though before doing it as he's not really at an age yet which would take sitting down to play one activity for 2 hours very well. That and we have the club in a bar at the moment with college finished with lectures and the laws about bringing children into bars are complicated in this country.)

I'm still trying to decide whether I leave him play some 9x9 on KGS for practice against other absolute beginners. Thoughts?

My highest priority, in teaching my young kids how to play, has been attitude. Losing (and winning) graciously is not something that comes naturally to most of us, but it can be taught at a younger age than most people realize. Before every game, we have the following conversation:

"What will you say if you win?"
"Thanks for the game!"
"What will you say if you lose?"
"Thanks for the game!" (same tone of voice as before)
"OK, have a good game."
"Have a good game."

If they miss a beat in that conversation, no game. If the "thanks for the game" (in a reasonably cheerful voice!) doesn't materialize afterwards, we don't play for several days. It may seem harsh, but if anything, treating the game as an adult privilege that must be respected has increased their interest.

That said, I go easy on them on the board. A preschooler, unless (s)he is really exceptional, is not ready to read out life and death problems or master strategic ideas. I give them plenty of handi stones on a 9x9 board, play very simply, and sometimes (not always) point them in the right direction via dramatic monologues ("Mwahaha, next move I'm going to bust into your territory at the top! What? You're playing there? Aw, man, now my territory is smaller...").

If there is a big win or loss, I say that we were obviously playing at the wrong handi, and get them talking about what we should do next time. 4 year olds in particular seem to have trouble coping with loss, but if you prepare them before the game and help them recover after, they can learn to do it. I really don't think it's good to let them win all the time.

Having them win 2 out of 3 games keeps them feeling good without letting their enjoyment be entirely dependent on victory. Moving on from your losses is the key to getting stronger, not just in go, but in life - helping them learn that is time well spent!

When it is time to introduce a new idea, I set up a problem on the board, and see if I can walk them through solving it. There's less pressure that way than if you suddenly do something new and tricky during a game. Graded Go Problems for Beginners Vol 1 is great source if you don't like making up your own problems. Once they've done a few of a certain type of problem, then I start trying to create similar situations in our games.

My older 2 will probably never be pros, but they love the game and will certainly be stronger at 20 than I was.

Some years ago, I started teaching my neighbor when he was only 5. At first he seemed to catch on pretty good, then hit a bit of a plateau. Then I switched to using Chinese rules and told him the one with the most stones on the board wins -- he then learned to resign lost games without having to play them all the way out.

I like using the Capture game to teach beginners, but its not so much needed with kids as it is with adults. And I like to say "first one who gets captured, loses" to try to deemphasize capturing. And usually add that most likely they won't capture any of my stones anyway, so the real key is to learn not to get captured. I learned with allowing passing, and it still leads to learning territory, especially on really small boards (5x5 and 7x7)

Also if you use enough handicap stones (in regular games), they can win often enough to not get discouraged with losing. Add a stone when they lose, take one away when they win and their goal can be reducing the number of handicap stones they need to beat you. While learning to accept loss can be tough, this can be an easier goal than simply winning/losing.

Kids usually like to play quick, and can often learn faster that way too. If you're a slow player, then you need to learn to play blitz with them. You may make more mistakes that way, but that's ok too. And it will also help them not get bored. -- I love the scene in the movie "Searching for Bobby Fisher" where the kid is playing in his room in between waiting for his father to make his move because his dad hates to lose and wants to be a challenge too. Show your kids its ok to lose.

My daughter now insists on playing with me after seeing me playing around with the board. She's only 2 and a half, so I had no clue what to do when she asked to learn how to play--I just explained the rules as best I could. She likes to "play" by taking turns placing stones, and she knows they go on the intersections. It's weird in a way, because I have no idea whether I should try and explain anything, or let things take their own course.

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Occupy Babel!

my opinion, kids learn best by example... no need to explain the rules until you encounter them, such as the first time you capture a stone, then she'll want to do the same thing. Set up several examples, and let her capture your stones.

I agree, I showed my son a few basic "tricks" for capturing stones (ladders, throw-ins, vital points in dead shapes etc) and he just got obsessed by them and played them out on a board over and over. His interest comes and goes though, I leave him to it. When he wants a game I give it to him, when he doesn't bring it up I leave him to do whatever he wants.

There used to be a member posting about his son's journey in Go: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=220

Someone already mentioned Jonathan Helis, but there is more info about the subject in Senseis:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?TeachingMethods#toc12

There was a thread about it in GoDiscussions, which is for now lost until the archives are put online.

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a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go