Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
Post
by Drewch Tue May 08, 2012 8:09 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
I am going to try to force him to make some moves in this corner, which I should be able to end in sente, and then play along the bottom to try to build some large bottom middle territory.
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 My goal is to leave bottom left in sente and get stone A. If he ignores bottom left then I am going to gain a lot of territory.
Last edited by
Drewch on Tue May 08, 2012 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Boidhre
Oza
Posts: 2356 Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:15 pmGD Posts: 0Universal go server handle: BoidhreLocation: IrelandHas thanked: 661 times Been thanked: 442 times
Post
by Boidhre Tue May 08, 2012 8:29 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
I want to keep the joseki as simple as possible since I'm weaker tactically.
I'm hoping for:
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Aiming at the attachment at x and extension to y later on.
As an aside, I think studying joseki's like these definitely helps with shape.
topazg
Tengen
Posts: 4511 Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:08 amRank: NebulousGD Posts: 918KGS: topazgLocation: Chatteris, UKHas thanked: 1579 times Been thanked: 650 times
Contact:
Post
by topazg Wed May 09, 2012 1:16 am
Boidhre
Oza
Posts: 2356 Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:15 pmGD Posts: 0Universal go server handle: BoidhreLocation: IrelandHas thanked: 661 times Been thanked: 442 times
Post
by Boidhre Wed May 09, 2012 9:04 am
Hmm, I forgot to give my reasoning for responding to him in the lower left. I think allowing him a strong position in the lower left is bigger than me getting one in the lower right right now. Specifically I don't want him to build a wall in the lower left facing his position on top. In the lower left I've the choice of the corner and side or outside influence and neither is hugely appealing to me given he gets to control the direction of play in the lower left. If the directional orientation of my 3,4 stone faced my upper right stone I'd have happily taken a wall facing my position.
The simplest outcome in the bottom right for me would have been:
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 I made a grave error here though I think as white should not tenuki here from going through a database (SmartGo). (I felt looking at the "joseki" that White couldn't tenuki here so I checked) If he played at a, I could have tenuki'd and continued a normal joseki in the lower left. If he neglects to play a I can ignore his tenuki and play at a myself most likely as I don't think he can afford to let this corner die after investing so much into it.
Lesson learned for future games.
Edit:
Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
Post
by Drewch Wed May 09, 2012 9:41 am
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859 Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pmGD Posts: 312Location: Santa Barbara, CAHas thanked: 349 times Been thanked: 2070 times
Post
by EdLee Wed May 09, 2012 11:20 am
Drewch,
(1)
In general (say, on an empty board) how would you rank these (from biggest to smallest) -- (a) sides; (b) center; (c) corners ?
(2) Follow-up question:
Drewch wrote: gain large territory in the bottom middle.
How does your "bottom middle" idea fit in your answer to (1) ?
Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
Post
by Drewch Wed May 09, 2012 11:23 am
EdLee wrote: Drewch,
(1)
In general (say, on an empty board) how would you rank these (from biggest to smallest) -- (a) sides; (b) center; (c) corners ?
(2) Follow-up question:
Drewch wrote: gain large territory in the bottom middle.
How does your "bottom middle" idea fit in your answer to (1) ?
@EdLee
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859 Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pmGD Posts: 312Location: Santa Barbara, CAHas thanked: 349 times Been thanked: 2070 times
Post
by EdLee Wed May 09, 2012 11:42 am
Boidhre,
Boidhre wrote: $$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BW does not have to reply to
. Instead:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WB missed a big chance with
; instead,
starts an attack on the
group while expanding the lower right moyo --
W would be too busy to worry about (a) or (b):
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859 Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pmGD Posts: 312Location: Santa Barbara, CAHas thanked: 349 times Been thanked: 2070 times
Post
by EdLee Wed May 09, 2012 11:48 am
Drewch,
No problem.
Drewch wrote: I know that the order that you should get them in are: Corner, side, middle
Could you explain this discrepancy? Why would "the order you should get them" be the exact opposite of the bigness ordering?
In other words, if the corners are the smallest (as you say), then why should you take the corners first?
Similarly, if the center is the biggest (as you say), then why should you take it last?
Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
Post
by Drewch Wed May 09, 2012 12:00 pm
EdLee wrote: Drewch,
No problem.
Drewch wrote: I know that the order that you should get them in are: Corner, side, middle
Could you explain this discrepancy? Why would "the order you should get them" be the exact opposite of the bigness ordering?
In other words, if the corners are the smallest (as you say), then why should you take the corners first?
Similarly, if the center is the biggest (as you say), then why should you take it last?
@EdLee
The reason for taking them first is because corners are much easier to get then middle, and sides are next easiest, and the middle is the hardest to get.
Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
Post
by Drewch Wed May 09, 2012 12:14 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
I think I am not typing out my plan properly, so I'm going to make a diagram for how I think it is going to go:
On the left side it is the attach and extend joseski:
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Sorry, I couldn't have the numbers on there properly. But after the left, I will play M4, and he will likely play Q5 starting the joeseki
Boidhre
Oza
Posts: 2356 Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:15 pmGD Posts: 0Universal go server handle: BoidhreLocation: IrelandHas thanked: 661 times Been thanked: 442 times
Post
by Boidhre Wed May 09, 2012 12:22 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
Post
by Drewch Wed May 09, 2012 12:24 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Boidhre
Oza
Posts: 2356 Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:15 pmGD Posts: 0Universal go server handle: BoidhreLocation: IrelandHas thanked: 661 times Been thanked: 442 times
Post
by Boidhre Wed May 09, 2012 12:28 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Drewch
Dies with sente
Posts: 90 Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:11 pmRank: KGS 16kGD Posts: 0KGS: drewchBeen thanked: 3 times
Post
by Drewch Wed May 09, 2012 12:30 pm
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
. Instead:
starts an attack on the 
group while expanding the lower right moyo --