White not capturing the group

If you're new to the game and have questions, post them here.
Post Reply
User avatar
SuprunP
Dies in gote
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 3:28 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 55 times
Been thanked: 3 times

White not capturing the group

Post by SuprunP »

Hello everyone!
I'm new to the game and to the forum actually, so, my abject apologies if my topic is in the wrong section.

The answer to the question I'm just about to ask may be right over my head, but I'd still like you to shed some light on the following:
Why didn't White capture the group of black stones by playing n8 at his 70th move?



Thanks.
hyperpape
Tengen
Posts: 4382
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 3:24 pm
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
Has thanked: 499 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: White not capturing the group

Post by hyperpape »

If Black plays at S2 instead of White, then the White group will die. If White plays at P1, then Black plays at R1, if White plays at R1, then Black plays at P1.
blade90
Lives with ko
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:16 am
Rank: KGS 2k
GD Posts: 0
KGS: blade90
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: White not capturing the group

Post by blade90 »

Just as hyperpape said if Black plays S2 the white group will die.
I will go into more detail here:

If white captures at 1 he will get 5 stones (10 points).
But Black will kill the white group (marked), that are 9 stones + a few points in the corner. It's about double the value of white 1.
For that reason capturing with 1 is too small (taking 10 points by giving your opponent 20+ points).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Move 70
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O T T O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O T T T O . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X X W W W X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X X O . X . X W . W X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X W W W W 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . 4 . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I hope this answers your question.
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

blade90, SuprunP,
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Move 70
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ . . . . . . 1 O B B O . . |
$$ . . . . . O B B B O . X . |
$$ . . . . . . O O O O . . . |
$$ . . . O . O O X X X X X . |
$$ . . . , . X X W W W X . . |
$$ . X X O . X . X W . W X . |
$$ . . . X . . X W W W W 2 . |
$$ . . . . . . . X 3 . 4 . . |
$$---------------------------[/go]
blade90 wrote:It's about double the value of white 1.
There's more subtlety. The value of :w1: is not only the five :bc: stones -- the resulting powerful W shape also has value.
Moreover, :w1: is sente -- :b2: is gote. And blade90 only played :w3: and :b4: to show SuprunP that :wc: is dead --
in reality W would not waste a ko threat by playing :w3: immediately after :b2:.
Post Reply