31. padic (6k) vs. Splatted (6k)

padic · Post by **padic** » Tue May 04, 2010 7:02 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 11 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

All the other joseki I even sort of know of this situation rely on being able to threaten to surround the pincering stone. I can't really hope to do that because there's another white stone close by it, so instead I must enter the corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$WcFeared but expected $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 2 X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O 1 3 . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think it's likely that white will choose to seal me into the corner like this. I'm not quite comfortable with that, but living in the corner is better than nothing. If this happens I will try to keep sente, by deviating from the joseki if necessary (once I can establish unconditional life). If white gets a wall, playing the white-side midpoint becomes more urgent, since this is where white's influence might make a framework. I will probably have to play closer to the 4-4 point than the wall, following the general advice to stay away from strength. I will also have to play very conservatively, knowing that white will have an advantage in any fight if it comes to that.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Tue May 04, 2010 7:32 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 12 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . W X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

padic · Post by **padic** » Tue May 04, 2010 3:56 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 13 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O B . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Wed May 05, 2010 5:47 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 14 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At this point there is a choice between living in the corner as an extension of my top group, or extending along the right side. Both joseki are shown as diagrams below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Move 13 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is the one I'm going to play, as it works well with the bottom left, and black is quite small between two white groups. I'm suspicious that Padic will tenuki with 4, but I still think this is ok, though I don't like it as much.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Move 13 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is the other option, but I don't like it, as black has much more scope for development, and the bottom left stone now looks isolated.

padic · Post by **padic** » Wed May 05, 2010 6:13 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 15 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm expecting this to play out "by the book":

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$WcJoseki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white omits 1 or 3 in the diagram above (3 especially), I'll be looking towards a play around those points myself. If it plays out, I'll be stable in the corner and white will have loosely sketched out a lot of potential territory in exchange.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$WcJoseki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . b . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After that, I have two desires. One: I don't want to get shut in, as that would make the corner group rather useless. Two: I want to get the last side point, as it's a big moyo-building point for both black and white. I'm not sure which to play first, but I think perhaps "urgent before big" applies in favour of a. Perhaps I can play towards the center in another way that more definitely keeps sente, and so get to play b first in any case?

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Wed May 05, 2010 7:09 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 16 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

padic · Post by **padic** » Wed May 05, 2010 7:37 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 17 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . B X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think this is a good place to break away from this joseki. The point of this move is to make the group definitively alive. This means that white can't easily push it around.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Moves I'd play if I could play four stones at once $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . a X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . c . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Let's entertain the thought, though. Here are the moves on the board I'm most interested in -- a as above, b to prevent the framework white is about to get, c to build my own framework, and d to get my group into the center. Why is it right to play a now?

If I played d first, white would play a and I'd have a weak group on the run straight away. White would probably be able to play something like b during the chase and my escape would likely end in gote, so this seems like a loss on all counts. d has to wait.

c seems slightly better, but I'd still get a poor result around the corner group: white would either seal me in with d or make me weak with a, and get to play b while I struggled to live or run.

b, approximately taking white's next point according to the joseki, might've been interesting if white didn't have d13. It would've put some pressure on the white splitting group, allowing me to gain time to to get a proper base. As it is, d13 means that white group is so far out into the center (and close to strong white positions) that it can't really be chased. (That's actually a revelation for me, as I wondered earlier when looking at the joseki why d13 was so far out into the center.) I'd just end up making two small, weak groups, which is no good.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Fri May 07, 2010 3:53 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 18 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

C9 is joseki, I'm playing it because it strengthens my group in the top left corner and the stone in the bottom left. I considered playing immediately at K4/K3, to stop black getting the nice extension from his Q3 stone, but I decided that leaving the joseki unfinished left the group far too weak, and that I actually gain more from playing at C9 anyway. It really came down to a choice between taking what I want or stopping black getting what he wants. I think that I stand to gain more from C9 than he does from K4, especially as K4 is gote, while an invasion may not be.

I was just about to submit this when I thoght some more. Firstly, I'm not actually sure how you would go about attacking the group at C16. I guess you would prepare by pushing down on the G17 group to stop them connecting then try and force C15 to flee into the middle, but I can't actually picture a sequence to do it. The second consideration is F3. For some reason I had thought that if black played here I would just pincer and trap black in the corner like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 18 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 O 6 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 3 5 . 1 . 2 . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'd be happy with this because it wworks well with my stone at C9, and spoils the extension at K4. However, Black may instead play for influence, like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 18 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . 6 5 9 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 . 2 8 0 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Move 18 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . . 3 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . O X X 1 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . O O O . 2 4 . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems playable for both sides. It threatens a huge moyo, but succesfully following up on that may be difficult. I'm not confident in against this but I think I can afford to let it happen, though it might be slightly better for black. Actually I think it's better for white (after looking at the diagram rather imagining it in my head).

I think that I'm still going to play C9, but not just because I think it's the best move. At the beggining of the game I said that I wanted to focus on finding the right balance between territory and influence. I think that the game has reached the point where this is an important consideration. I'm not sure that this isn't letting my opponent get too much influence though, which is why I said I had another reason for playing this move. In my recent KGS games I have found that my opponents have started to make large moyos, and I want to learn how to deal with them. It may be that I'm just not acting soon enough, but if thats so I hope it will become apparant if I keep playing like this.

padic · Post by **padic** » Fri May 07, 2010 4:36 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 19 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . B . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I have to take this point now, or white will just get too large a framework.

Here are the other moves I considered:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 19 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . a . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O b . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

They're all attempts to poke my head just slightly out of the corner, to avoid getting sealed in.

c is the straightforward way, not sente and white will probably just respond by taking the lower side.

a and b are fancy attempts to try to accomplish this in sente. Of these, I abandoned a because I don't think it's actually sente: if white answers with a "slap" I need to extend as an answer, and there is no need for white to respond to the extension. As such, just playing the straightforward gote move of c would be better.

b is the one that was most appealing to me. I believe this move is sente because of this sequence, which I believe results if white stubbornly tenukis and then refuses to let me press into white territory:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$WcWhite ignores $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 0 O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . 7 O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | 9 6 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 2 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, I don't think it actually does a very good job of preventing white from sealing me in the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$WcWhite seals the corner anyway $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . X . O . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

When there's no obvious purpose to it, exchanging d15 for d14 is probably bad: not doing it leaves me more flexibility to make or not make the exchange later. As such, I'll just take the big framework point right away, and allow myself to be sealed in. I may be able to use threats to connect to the corner as forcing moves to reduce white's territory later, so the group might not end up totally useless even sealed in. Besides, assuming white does do the expected thing and seal me in, I get sente to make another move.

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Sat May 08, 2010 9:02 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 7 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

No one commented on this, but it looks weird to me. I would have expected either a or b (in fact, Harleqin seems to have assumed that it was at b in his comment). This looks like it leaves the corner rather open, plus the connection south looks weak (it's just asking for c) plus I feel like Black is flattening himself against the side when he should be inflating himself outward and asking for a fight. No one has commented on it, though. Is it better than I think?

padic · Post by **padic** » Mon May 24, 2010 6:24 am

I'll just note that I probably won't be able to play much before about June 10, but I'd really like to continue this game eventually! Splatted, I'm assuming you're also busy with other stuff, perhaps we could consider this game adjourned and set a date to come back to it?

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Wed May 26, 2010 4:17 am

Sorry for not posting something sooner, I am also still very keen to continue but as you guessed I have been busy. My exams finish about june the 20th, so if it's alright I will wait till then to post.

padic · Post by **padic** » Wed May 26, 2010 7:59 am

Right, I can empathise, I will be in the same situation very soon

. My exams finish before June 20 so starting the game up again then is fine with me.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Thu May 27, 2010 3:05 pm

Good luck^^

padic · Post by **padic** » Fri May 28, 2010 5:53 pm

Thanks, you too

.

Life In 19x19

31. padic (6k) vs. Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)

Re: Malkovich #31 - padic (6k) vs Splatted (6k)