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Re: This 'n' that
Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:25 am
by Bill Spight
There are many possibilities for the ko ensemble.
Re: This 'n' that
Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:31 pm
by Gérard TAILLE
Bill Spight wrote:There are many possibilities for the ko ensemble.
OC Bill, that is the reason why I did not really understand why you proposed such example with a miai value 7½ in the environment.
It was just to help you I took some time to study some environments with 4 gote points in order to reach a higher temperature (11 in my example).
Re: This 'n' that
Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2021 2:50 pm
by Bill Spight
Gérard TAILLE wrote:Bill Spight wrote:There are many possibilities for the ko ensemble.
OC Bill, that is the reason why I did not really understand why you proposed such example with a miai value 7½ in the environment.
It was just to help you I took some time to study some environments with 4 gote points in order to reach a higher temperature (11 in my example).
I appreciate that, thank you.
But remember, my pre-thermography method of ko evaluation basically used an environment of simple gote. That is not my focus, now.
Re: This 'n' that
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:27 am
by Gérard TAILLE
Bill Spight wrote:Gérard TAILLE wrote:lowing position
$$W
$$ --------------
$$ | X a X O O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X b X X O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ --------------
$$ | X a X O O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X b X X O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . .[/go]
In CGT, with a non-ko environment, a play at
b plainly dominates a play at
a. And, even though nobody has proved it, AFAIK, experience says that it is dominated in ko environments, as well. A play at
a may be correct in some circumstances, but it is still dominated. An amateur SDK who plays it instead of
b is, at best, careless. For an amateur dan player I would say that it is a bad play.
$$B black to play
$$ --------------
$$ | X a X . O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X b X X O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B black to play
$$ --------------
$$ | X a X . O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X b X X O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . .[/go]
GO is a surprising game. It seems a black move at "b" dominates a black move at "a" in all circumstancies (I mean in a ko or non-ko environment) but it is not the case. It may happen than a black move at "a" is strictly better than a black move at "b". Do you see the point?
Re: This 'n' that
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:19 am
by Bill Spight
Gérard TAILLE wrote:Bill Spight wrote:Gérard TAILLE wrote:lowing position
$$W
$$ --------------
$$ | X a X O O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X b X X O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ --------------
$$ | X a X O O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X b X X O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . .[/go]
In CGT, with a non-ko environment, a play at
b plainly dominates a play at
a. And, even though nobody has proved it, AFAIK, experience says that it is dominated in ko environments, as well. A play at
a may be correct in some circumstances, but it is still dominated. An amateur SDK who plays it instead of
b is, at best, careless. For an amateur dan player I would say that it is a bad play.
$$B black to play
$$ --------------
$$ | X a X . O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X b X X O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B black to play
$$ --------------
$$ | X a X . O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X b X X O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . .[/go]
GO is a surprising game. It seems a black move at "b" dominates a black move at "a" in all circumstancies (I mean in a ko or non-ko environment) but it is not the case. It may happen than a black move at "a" is strictly better than a black move at "b". Do you see the point?
Very interesting.
I can guess that
b has a strict miai that together act as a defensive ko threat.
Re: This 'n' that
Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:26 am
by Gérard TAILLE
Bill Spight wrote:Gérard TAILLE wrote:
$$B black to play
$$ --------------
$$ | X a X . O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X b X X O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B black to play
$$ --------------
$$ | X a X . O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X b X X O . .
$$ | X O O O O . .
$$ | X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . .[/go]
GO is a surprising game. It seems a black move at "b" dominates a black move at "a" in all circumstancies (I mean in a ko or non-ko environment) but it is not the case. It may happen than a black move at "a" is strictly better than a black move at "b". Do you see the point?
Very interesting.
I can guess that
b has a strict miai that together act as a defensive ko threat.
Not in the circumstances I found, but that does not mean that you cannot find a position where your idea applies.