Here is a problem I just composed. It is easy, but there are a couple of quirks. It is based on some things I discovered long ago. Enjoy!
This 'n' that
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Bill Spight
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This 'n' that
Many people have their study journals here. You might think of this as a retrospective study journal, where I mostly talk about things I have learned. Or more or less random musings. Or whatever.
Here is a problem I just composed. It is easy, but there are a couple of quirks. It is based on some things I discovered long ago. Enjoy!
Here is a problem I just composed. It is easy, but there are a couple of quirks. It is based on some things I discovered long ago. Enjoy!
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Kirby
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DrStraw
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Re: This 'n' that
Once you say contrived (oops! AGA) rules I lose interest.
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).
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Abyssinica
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Re: This 'n' that
Kirby wrote:
I counted using Chinese and Japanese scoring and there is a difference here so maybe that's why he says AGA? Did I count wrong?
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Bill Spight
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Re: This 'n' that
Kirby wrote:
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
-
Bill Spight
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- Posts: 10905
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
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Re: This 'n' that
DrStraw wrote:Once you say contrived (oops! AGA) rules I lose interest.
OK. Chinese rules.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
-
Bill Spight
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- Posts: 10905
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
- Has thanked: 3651 times
- Been thanked: 3373 times
Re: This 'n' that
Abyssinica wrote:I counted using Chinese and Japanese scoring and there is a difference here so maybe that's why he says AGA? Did I count wrong?
AGA scoring is not Japanese scoring.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Abyssinica
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Re: This 'n' that
Bill Spight wrote:Abyssinica wrote:I counted using Chinese and Japanese scoring and there is a difference here so maybe that's why he says AGA? Did I count wrong?
AGA scoring is not Japanese scoring.
I know this - I used it to confirm the fact that AGA was supposed to let you count in Japanese but still coincide with Chinese scoring.
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Kirby
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Bill Spight
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Re: This 'n' that
Kirby wrote:
Interesting. I did not examine that line. More about the reasons later.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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xed_over
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Re: This 'n' that
Abyssinica wrote:Bill Spight wrote:Abyssinica wrote:I counted using Chinese and Japanese scoring and there is a difference here so maybe that's why he says AGA? Did I count wrong?
AGA scoring is not Japanese scoring.
I know this - I used it to confirm the fact that AGA was supposed to let you count in Japanese but still coincide with Chinese scoring.
its the pass stones and white plays last rule that allows that to happen.
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Bill Spight
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Re: This 'n' that
Abyssinica wrote:I counted using Chinese and Japanese scoring and there is a difference here so maybe that's why he says AGA? Did I count wrong?
Bill Spight wrote:AGA scoring is not Japanese scoring.
Abyssinica wrote:I know this - I used it to confirm the fact that AGA was supposed to let you count in Japanese but still coincide with Chinese scoring.
xed_over wrote:its the pass stones and white plays last rule that allows that to happen.
You're welcome.
Or my apologies, depending upon how you feel about that.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
-
Bill Spight
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- Posts: 10905
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
- Has thanked: 3651 times
- Been thanked: 3373 times
Re: This 'n' that
I begin to study ko fights.
When I became shodan I realized, to my surprise and dismay, that I knew next to nothing about go. Oh, I had a pretty good intuition about the game, but I was playing by the seat of my pants.
One thing I decided to research was ko fights. Kos are not independent plays, but involve plays elsewhere, in what I call the ko ensemble. One of the first things that I studied was the relationship between kos and the environment (other plays on the board besides ko threats), although I did not use the term at that time. This led me to the idea of komonster -- again, a term I did not use until much later, after learning about Professor Berlekamp's idea of komaster. A komonster is not only able to win a ko, but to reduce the size of plays that the koloser is able to get in exchange for the ko (the ko exchange). Nowadays we say that the komonster is able to reduce the temperature of the environment (or ambient temperature) before winning the ko.
The "half point ko" at the end of the game illustrates komonster effects, even though it is usually played at a lower ambient temperature than the size of the ko to begin with. Now I knew that, in theory, the size of each play in such a ko is 1/3 point (by territory scoring), not 1/2 point, but on the other hand, if you don't know who will win the ko fight, it's a 50-50 chance, and a half point makes sense. But my study of the komonster gave me a different understanding of the half point ko.
Suppose that we do know who will win the final ko. Then the koloser gets zero in the ko exchange. That means that taking the ko is enough for the komaster to win it. So instead of there being three moves between winning and losing the ko, there would be only two moves, in practice. Each move would gain 1/2 point, making for a half point ko.
Later on I learned about Chinese (area) scoring, in which each stone gains one point, so that each play in the final ko gains 4/3 points, not 1/3 point. Each dame gains 1 point, as well. But suppose that the komonster can reduce the ambient temperature from 1 point (dame) to 0 (no dame). Then the value of each move in the ko would become 4/2 = 2 points. That is the basis for my little problem.
I have to go now. More about that problem later.
When I became shodan I realized, to my surprise and dismay, that I knew next to nothing about go. Oh, I had a pretty good intuition about the game
, but I was playing by the seat of my pants.One thing I decided to research was ko fights. Kos are not independent plays, but involve plays elsewhere, in what I call the ko ensemble. One of the first things that I studied was the relationship between kos and the environment (other plays on the board besides ko threats), although I did not use the term at that time. This led me to the idea of komonster -- again, a term I did not use until much later, after learning about Professor Berlekamp's idea of komaster. A komonster is not only able to win a ko, but to reduce the size of plays that the koloser is able to get in exchange for the ko (the ko exchange). Nowadays we say that the komonster is able to reduce the temperature of the environment (or ambient temperature) before winning the ko.
The "half point ko" at the end of the game illustrates komonster effects, even though it is usually played at a lower ambient temperature than the size of the ko to begin with. Now I knew that, in theory, the size of each play in such a ko is 1/3 point (by territory scoring), not 1/2 point, but on the other hand, if you don't know who will win the ko fight, it's a 50-50 chance, and a half point makes sense. But my study of the komonster gave me a different understanding of the half point ko.
Suppose that we do know who will win the final ko. Then the koloser gets zero in the ko exchange. That means that taking the ko is enough for the komaster to win it. So instead of there being three moves between winning and losing the ko, there would be only two moves, in practice. Each move would gain 1/2 point, making for a half point ko.
Later on I learned about Chinese (area) scoring, in which each stone gains one point, so that each play in the final ko gains 4/3 points, not 1/3 point. Each dame gains 1 point, as well. But suppose that the komonster can reduce the ambient temperature from 1 point (dame) to 0 (no dame). Then the value of each move in the ko would become 4/2 = 2 points. That is the basis for my little problem.
I have to go now. More about that problem later.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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mitsun
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Re: This 'n' that
I don't know about this particular problem, but with Chinese scoring, there are certainly cases where it is better to fill a mutual dame than to fill the last half-point ko. If you have enough threats to win the ko anyway, then playing dame first can be worth two points extra.
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Bill Spight
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Re: This 'n' that
mitsun wrote:I don't know about this particular problem, but with Chinese scoring, there are certainly cases where it is better to fill a mutual dame than to fill the last half-point ko. If you have enough threats to win the ko anyway, then playing dame first can be worth two points extra.
Oh, yes.
That is implied in the idea of komonster. The komonster does not win the ko right away, but makes another play.I'll also get around to virtual ko threats (now called tertiary ko threats). A pair of dame can act as a ko threat for the koloser.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.