(At four stones I get completely and thoroughly crushed against the 7 dans, every time so far-- it makes me remember what it was like to be 10k again. I'm 2-0 vs the 5d owner at 2 stones, though.)
i've been tricked!!! or i guess he was weak 5 dan
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:08 pm
by daniel_the_smith
@Magicwand
Don't worry, they're generous with the ratings there--they're at least one stone weaker than AGA ratings. The owner thinks I'm nearly 2d (I don't agree), I don't know why he handicaps me like I'm 3d. I think my strengths just happen to coincide with his weaknesses. That or he's just leading me on... Plus I've been trying to improve lately, I would like to defend 1d at congress...
The same plan, but delayed one move to get some extra liberties first. This threatens to connect with a monkey jump underneath.
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:30 pm
by Suji
Not for the players:
Am I the only one who fears for black? I looks like Araban is getting exactly what he wants with the current exchange. I don't have any variations in mind, but surely black could have gotten a better result. What do the stronger players who aren't playing the game say?
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:42 pm
by Magicwand
Suji wrote:Not for the players:
Am I the only one who fears for black? I looks like Araban is getting exactly what he wants with the current exchange. I don't have any variations in mind, but surely black could have gotten a better result. What do the stronger players who aren't playing the game say?
Joaz drew many many useless diag that will never happen... i understand that he is working very hard to show all the variations...but too much of nothing doesnt really help. anyway...if black connect two groups with monkey jump... in gote...while white gets influcence in sente... that is really bad for black. yes i can see the rank difference between two players. if i was black..i would not try to save that stone... it is more effective to use them as aji for later.
Warning: Bit longer than usual, will try to be more succinct next time.
So...it's the ultimate question: 'a' or 'b'? 'a' essentially surrenders N17 and gives Black roughly 10 points on top. However, the compensation is that it prevents Black playing there in sente and trailing a bit of aji. Furthermore, it is solid and if Black does try to take the stone (which is kind of like bait), then it will only strengthen my outside so I think it's worth less than 10 points. But let's just say it's worth 10 for the sake of discussion. So the question could perhaps be worded: "Should I give up ~10 points to prevent the sente atari from Black?".
I couldn't come to a truly definite conclusion on one or the other. Instead, I decided I was in favor of 'a' over 'b' by about 70%. So I decided to go on random.org and get a random number between 1 - 10. If it was 4 - 10, I would choose 'a', but if it was 1 - 3 I would choose 'b'. The result was , so I chose 'a'.
I think the question requires some pondering, so I hope observers think about this question and offer their thoughts and suggestions (either to each other, or to me ), not only on their answer to this question but also whether they think the question is even correct to begin with! Is my choice too slow? Or is it solid? Is 'b' an overplay? Or is it efficient? These are the sort of questions I had to answer in my head before placing my stone down. I just hope I answered them correctly.
Also, I hope by this point you realized I was just joking about relying on a pseudo/"truly"-random generator to determine my move . I will save my defense on why I chose 'a' over 'b' in my next text analysis (move 40), since it will require plenty of diagrams and a lot of explanations. I know there will be people who disagree with me. I can only hope the people who do aren't the stronger ones .
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:24 am
by daniel_the_smith
Second line, the line of champions! (re Joaz's move)
I would have played Araban's b...
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:42 am
by unkx80
a is better in my opinion - solid and leaves less aji. The top is small and unimportant.
I'm not trying to be condescending, but what kind of move is this black descent? It just feels plain wrong to me.
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:14 am
by Aphelion
I too would have played 'b' without any thought at all. 'a' seems better after reading all these comments but for me 'b' just seems like a good momentum play .
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:39 am
by Shaddy
I'd probably take a here. Solid is good.
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:13 am
by Chew Terr
My choice would have been 'a', which means that, according to the 'Second Terrian Theory of Correctness', the right answer is probably 'b'.
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:25 am
by fwiffo
The reasoning behind makes a seem quite natural to me. seems like something I would play and then feel bad about (sorry Joaz).
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:55 am
by SoDesuNe
I would have played 'a' even before I saw how Araban himself responds ^^
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:50 am
by gaius
AAHH, why does Joaz try to save useless stones *right after* his opponent spends a move to more or less neutralise them?? Instead of the game move ('a') I would play this black 1 every time. Just the difference between this whole board (albeit a bit loose) black moyo and a white move there seems huge!
By the way, if I were white, I would not have played the marked move. Instead, I would have extended at 1; white is pretty solid on the top side anyway. But then again, I know nothing, I'm only 1 kyu...
Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)
Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:48 am
by Oroth
Araban,
I really like your videos, it seems like they let you cover quite a lot of content in a short time. I especially hope you use them if you are going to include a few variations - I really do prefer video in that case as I tend to find following numbered diagrams with more than a couple of numbers a bit of work. The same for Joaz - I really appreciate the amount of work you put in to explain your thinking, but when illustrating your reading video is my preferred format.
Not for players:
@daniel_the_smith
Regarding the differences in Joaz's and Sol's understanding of the position I have been struck in general in Malkovich games between the difference in thinking between player's appreciation of the position - the Violence / Magicwand in particular are noteworthy as they seem to be of a similiar strength and the difference comes down to attitude. In this game I tend to feel the difference comes from Sol being a bit stronger and thinking more clearly about the game. I think this is shown by the feeling of observers that Joaz's position is already becoming unfavourable.
Plus I've been trying to improve lately, I would like to defend 1d at congress...
, so I chose 'a'.
), not only on their answer to this question but also whether they think the question is even correct to begin with! Is my choice too slow? Or is it solid? Is 'b' an overplay? Or is it efficient? These are the sort of questions I had to answer in my head before placing my stone down. I just hope I answered them correctly.
.
makes a seem quite natural to me. 
seems like something I would play and then feel bad about (sorry Joaz).