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42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

https://www.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=702

Page 7 of 11

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:23 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Araban:
Oh dear, I don't want to be a detractor. But if I look at a wall of coordinates, I more often than not simply blank. I find it too disruptive to constantly look to find a coordinate on the board and then try to find where I was last reading from, and try to understand what is being said all at the same time.

This is just a suggestion, but I think putting a diagram, even if it has a bunch of letters scattered all over it, is better than just listing coordinates.

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:44 pm
by Solomon
Dusk Eagle wrote:Araban:
Oh dear, I don't want to be a detractor. But if I look at a wall of coordinates, I more often than not simply blank. I find it too disruptive to constantly look to find a coordinate on the board and then try to find where I was last reading from, and try to understand what is being said all at the same time.

This is just a suggestion, but I think putting a diagram, even if it has a bunch of letters scattered all over it, is better than just listing coordinates.
Yeah, I'll make sure to always have a diagram in if I rely on coordinates next time, I know the pain :P. Edited the last one, I hope it's better!

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:57 pm
by ethanb
Araban:
Sorry about dissing your video commentary in the other thread - I feel like I opened up a can of worms over there, and I hate being a complainer in general. :-|

But the new system sounds great! If I ever have time to do another Malkovich (not that I really had time for the first one I did...) I'll try and do something similar.

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:13 pm
by Solomon
ethanb wrote:Araban:
Sorry about dissing your video commentary in the other thread - I feel like I opened up a can of worms over there, and I hate being a complainer in general. :-|

But the new system sounds great! If I ever have time to do another Malkovich (not that I really had time for the first one I did...) I'll try and do something similar.
Nothing to be sorry about, it was really just an experimentation after all - and an experiment needs its criticism :). No hard feelings.

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:58 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
The honeydo list just had a dramatic increase. And yesterday a routine business opportunity turned out to be about 3 times as good as expected - with 3 times as much time required. So I'm busy.

I'll post Sunday or Monday.

you can't trust that day

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:38 pm
by cyclops
Joaz Banbeck wrote: I'll post Sunday or Monday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUqfyQgVbDE

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:09 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
@Cyclops: It is still Monday here in Califonia. :D
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It is probe time.

My initial reflex is to strengthen my group up top. But that can just provoke running to N13, and I have a red queen problem - I have to keep running just to stay even.

Or instead of a running fight, I can connect underneath. The joseki which I think I showed on my video ( and which I presume Araban has has probably showed you too ) goes like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 16
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . 9 1 3 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X 8 O 2 4 5 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X 6 O c . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 0 b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
And black gets territory while white gets influence. Black has aji at 'a', 'b' and/or 'c'. So I can always rescue my scraggly top middle group like that, and he will finish in gote, having captured a couple of stones.

That is the crucial question of the moment: does the L18 stone go south or east?
Rather than commiting myself, and letting him react, I'd like to make MHO commit himself first.

The theme of white's game since he played his 4th move has been upper left corner territory - or left side territory if he can get it. The point of this move is to see how white wants to play the left side before I decide how to handle my upper middle group. He has avoided a quick fight up top - which I had hoped to provoke - and settled for making a strong three-stone group. I want to find out what he intends to do with that strength before I commit myself.


If he is determined to play territorially like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
Then there is plenty of room for me to play like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W O . . . . X B . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . B . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
On the other hand, if he wants to leave the corner open, and play with a strong thick group like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . W X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
...I'll avoid his thickness and connect underneath, and later invade at 'a' or 'b':
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . B . X . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a O . . . W X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Regardless of the outcome up top, the stone has some nice features. It interferes with his probable plans to make territory down the left side. It also works as an extension off of my lower left corner stone.

The most aggressive response by white is to try to break the underneath connection in sente. I get compensation if he does:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . 1 X . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White's :w1: threatens to cut through. But :b2: covers that and endangers whites two stones on the right. An eventual move at R11 is very unpleasant.

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:57 am
by Solomon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 18
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . a . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Thought chain: :bc: is distant -> :bc: applies little pressure to :wc: -> I can tenuki from :bc: . My move has a follow-up at 'a', which will make Black's top group painfully sealed (or, if Black misplays badly, dies), so I expect him to play there next.

My move follows the classic proverb: my vital point is the opponent's vital point. Black getting to play where I played would drive me into the 3rd line and give him thickness that I do not want him to give, despite my top center group still being light and easy to handle.

20/60

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:23 am
by Chew Terr
Araban:
This growing framework on the right wants to keep growing (it has open space near it). Obviously this may not the the time for it, but I do not know how to deal with 5-3 and 5-4 stones. Let's assume all of the other groups mostly get settled in the areas they're in. How would you best approach the bottom right to help our right side? Also, as a followup question, is that the right direction at all? It works well with your right side, but black seems to want the bottom anyway.

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:45 am
by Solomon
Chew Terr wrote:Araban:
This growing framework on the right wants to keep growing (it has open space near it). Obviously this may not the the time for it, but I do not know how to deal with 5-3 and 5-4 stones. Let's assume all of the other groups mostly get settled in the areas they're in. How would you best approach the bottom right to help our right side? Also, as a followup question, is that the right direction at all? It works well with your right side, but black seems to want the bottom anyway.
I think it's too soon to consider a growing framework for either side on the right, one added benefit of my last move is that it makes it difficult for Black to try and harvest a moyo on the right. Consider the difference between the last move and the case where I would play elsewhere then Black getting the chance to play R11.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . e c a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d b B . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , f . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . h . . . . . . g . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Trying to move out with 'a' would only allow b -> e, which then indeed builds a good moyo framework on the right for Black. If I were to play elsewhere and not worry about moving out with 'a', then B to play 'c' would make the framework magnificent, radiating all over the center while painfully sealing me in on the right. So basically it's a bit of a lose-lose situation for me - if I want to move out, it's painful - and if I don't want to move out and play elsewhere it's even more painful, though it's not entirely clear-cut like that. Regardless, the move I played helps me not have to worry about these sort of situations.

Regarding your question about approaching 5-3s and 5-4s, it's a bit too broad for me to answer. 'f' is just fine and dandy for me. 'g' is also possible, and if Black were to have a stone near 'h' prior to approaching, then I think 'g' is a bit better than 'f'. It's hard to explain why this is the case other than that the extra Black stone requires me to be a bit more defensive and settle more quickly.

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:01 am
by Chew Terr
Thanks, Araban. I know my question was really vague and premature, but your explanation makes sense.

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:23 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 19
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . B . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Well, that's a very clever move. It gets his group out, it threatens to lock me in like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . W . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
...and indirectly hurts my connection underneath at N18. As I mentioned earlier, I have aji with 'a', 'b', and 'c' when I connect underneath like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . 9 1 3 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X 8 O 2 4 5 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X 6 O c . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 0 b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Now, the extra stone crushes that aji:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . X X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X 8 O 2 4 X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X O O c . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |[/go]
Also, he can completely block the connection underneath as shown below. I can defend with :b3:, but now it is not nearly as strong as it once was because the right side white group is out. And I am forced to play pathetic moves like :w5:.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . 2 X . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X 5 . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
It is a multi-purpose move, and all of them are bad for me. As I said, it is very clever. Fortunately, I have a moderately clever move myself.

My reasoning is like this: It seems that he has decided that he does not want me to connect underneath at N18, so we are going to have a running fight. That means that I have to play L15 rather soon.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c The thematic tobi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . B . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Obviously, if I play it immediately, I get locked in like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . B . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
If I try to cut my way out, it does not work:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 1 O X 8 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O X O 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 6 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
But, suppose there were one extra black stone in a convenient place, like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X X . B . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 1 O X 8 O a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O X O 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 6 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Now, 'a' saves me, and white's position is full of cutting points. What that means is, if I had a stone as shown above - or at 'a' - he can't lock me in, and I could play the tobi at L15.

It turns out that 'a' is no good, for he just plays at R14 himself, and all of my problems are renewed. But R14 for me seems to work. It is sente, and keeps him busy long enough that I can play L15.

That's how I found it. I checked it out, and it seems to work in all variations. Here are possible continuations.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 3 . . 6 O 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 O 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . 9 8 X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 X . B 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 0 3 6 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:24 am
by Solomon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X W . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 20
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Just FYI, I put a somewhat redundant diagram in the hidden for strictly visual aid when I bring up coordinates. If I bring up too many coordinates, I will usually use marked stones. Anyways, this is one of those nice moments when I can play with my brain shut down (just gotta make sure to boot it right back up again), the move to play is painfully obvious for me. The marked move aims to maintain connection between R16 and R13.

So now I want to look back and analyze what has happened thus far:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Moves 1 - 10
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . 5 , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . 1 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
Up to :w6: little can be said, it is a typical opening with a slightly unusual 5-4 for Black's first move. I would say :b7: was a bit too ambitious by B. This is typically an aggressive move that is played when he is supported in the vicinity - clearly not the case here as his stones are way down there.

However, to say it is unplayable is a stretch, especially at our levels. I am also not the one who likes to nitpick on the opening either, but it is just a passing comment - I think, at worst, it would be considered an incorrect answer in the highly recommendable (albeit a bit difficult) series"Whole Board Thinking in Joseki" by Yilun Yang.

:w8: is something I wonder about even today. I've clearly expressed my reasoning behind why I chose to play it over Q14, but it's one of those "what if" moments and looking back I can't help but wonder whether I worried too much about the follow-up move of R12 for B. Nonetheless, I have no regrets - it's a move I haven't had much chance to play and I'm a sucker for playing moves with such motive :).

:b9: just shows Black isn't holding back punches. It is even more aggressive than :b7: and, personally, seems a bit out of line to me. If D16 were a Black stone, then I think it would be perfect. However, such is not the case and it is in fact White who has stones at the top, so for Black to play like this leaves me questioning. However, one cannot sink into the mindset of wanting to crush the opponent over what are possibly very small overplays. I need to stay calm and make sure I only come out with a marginal advantage (obligatory link to an article by my favorite SC caster) in the running fight at the top. That is why I chose the simple move of :w10: .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Moves 11 - 20
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 2 . X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . . . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . 9 0 . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
I will continue discussion on these moves on move 22 (sorry, but I'm falling asleep!). Actually, just so readers don't get too swamped by my text analysis over past moves, maybe breaking it up like this whenever the wall of text starts to become too large is for the better.

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:08 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I'm going to jump to L15, or possibly L14. I'm trying to decide between those, and whether or not I should interpose M16 before jumping.
I should have a move by Thursday evening.

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:22 am
by Jonas
Personally I think both L14 and L15 are bad, white can always play '2' to seperate blacks groups, looks like black will suffer from the bad attachment move earlier. After Blacks jump I imagine something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . 3 2 . . X . 9 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . 5 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X W . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . 0 . 4 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Looks like black is in trouble
All times are UTC-07:00
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