Best way to start learning?

[thewindbelow]

Took up the game a couple of weeks ago and have been learning as much as I can. Unfortunately, I don't have a Go club I can attend in-person. So, I've been reading the Sensei database online, reading some Janice Kim books and watching YouTube lessons. I've played about 5-10 games against a computer opponent on my phone app also, all of which have been harrowing, but educational experiences.

Anyone wish to impart some early advice for a beginner? I'd appreciate any feedback.

[schawipp]

Welcome to Go

From what I experienced I can recommend
- Not to play against a computer too much (especially weak programs play strange moves which do not help you to get better against humans)
- Try to do at least a few tsumego on a regular basis (online resources e. g. http://tsumego.tasuki.org/, or http://goproblems.com
- As beginner, I recommend playing on KGS first, on other servers people usually start at significant higher ranks, so it can be frustrating. If you have lost a game, try to replay it on your own until you see that something significantly went wrong. Try to find a better alternative of your moves at that stage (I know that replaying lost games can be humiliating and is the hardest part... )
- Post interesting games (especially which you lost and you have no clue why exactly) here or on http://gtl.xmp.org
- However the best thing is to find a local go group or at least know some stronger players, who are willing to play and discuss your games with you
- After you've gained some experience I definitely recommend to participate at open tournaments, the atmosphere on Go tournaments is quite friendly and unique, from what I've experienced so far

[EdLee]

Hi thewindbelow, Welcome to Go and the forum.

Play as many games as your time and energy allow.

Study whatever you enjoy studying: Life-and-Death, joseki, etc.

[Mike Novack]

Giving advice to suit most persons may or may not be the specific advice you need to suit your learning style (some people learn well from books; others poorly, etc.)

a) A really weak because "playing randomly" computer program does not make a good opponent. But one that is weak because it doesn't "know" some things (not yet, not at this level setting) can be a good opponent to learn from. Advice "stick to humans" ignores the reality that human beginners also play poorly. Just saying "on my iphone" doesn't tell us much. What program are you trying to use?

b) If you are trying to use a computer program as opponent from which to learn, probably best (until you get to levels where you can play against the MCTS programs) not to play even games where you have weakened the program all the way down to your level. Instead use a level setting where the computer is several ranks above you and take the required number of handicap stones. The program will still be making mistakes, but not the ones typical for you level so you won't be learning that level's bad habits. Since as you advance you would be advancing the level of the program, that will continue to be true.

c) Consider programs that run on more adequate hardware (than a phone). Some of these might offer some teaching options. Not that I am familiar of what the phone versions might offer. Like I said, name the program and we can better discuss what it can or cannot do for you.

[thewindbelow]

Thanks all for the advice.

I'm using the "Joygo" app on my phone. It has three difficulty settings, which definitely seems vague vis-a-vis the quality of play the computer will deliver.

Until I can locate some local players, I was contemplating joining KGS. I see the benefit of playing human opponents as you get practice adjusting to and capitalizing upon human mistakes.

So far, learning from books has been more beneficial because the books reduce concepts to their most basic terms. Many videos don't take the time to go over why certain moves or concepts are the best to use. I do enjoy the "theduddha2" channel though, it has been quite helpful.

[thewindbelow]

Hi thewindbelow, Welcome to Go and the forum.

Play as many games as your time and energy allow.

Study whatever you enjoy studying: Life-and-Death, joseki, etc.

The great thing, Ed, is that I like studying Go right off the bat. For some reason, this highly abstract game fascinates me. I'm hoping this enthusiasm persists. I was watching some tsumego videos yesterday and I wasn't bored out of my mind. I hope that's a good sign.

[Bill Spight]

The general advice to people starting out is to play, play, play.

That's good advice, but let me go one step further. The reason that you learn a lot from playing when you start out is that there is a whole lot to learn, and you learn a lot just by facing situations as they arise in play. As a rule, much more quickly than by reading or working on go problems. Each game presents you with several problems to solve, and gives you feedback when you solve them or don't. The one step further I have to suggest is to set goals as you play. OC, the goal is to win the game, but there are subgoals along the way. Maybe you set a goal to capture some stones, or to make life for a group, or to build a wall. Setting goals and subgoals focuses your learning experience. You may find sometimes that you have succeeded in a goal, only to take a loss. You picked the wrong goal. That is a valuable lesson, too.

Good luck!

[Bonobo]

Hello & welcome!

I’d like to recommend ☯GS — Online Go Server — online-go.com, you don’t need Java there, it’s a simple Web page, you can start at 30k (or is it even lower?), a friendly community, many other beginners and quite a lot of strong players.

One of the many benefits of ☯GS is the analysis function. Using this, especially in slow correspondence games (you can play both live and correspondence games there), you can experiment with your moves before placing a stone.

Greetings, Tom

[Mike Novack]

Perhaps worth noting, but "personal learning style" is of great importance for how you might best learn go. We can only advise in terms of "most people" but we are all individuals. Some of us do well with self study; others do better in a class. Some of us can profit from books; others of us learn little except hands on. Some of us pick up "principles" easily; others only after example after example.

Keep that in mind when collecting this advice.

[Abyssinica]

Hello & welcome!

I’d like to recommend ☯GS — Online Go Server — online-go.com, you don’t need Java there, it’s a simple Web page, you can start at 30k (or is it even lower?), a friendly community, many other beginners and quite a lot of strong players.

One of the many benefits of ☯GS is the analysis function. Using this, especially in slow correspondence games (you can play both live and correspondence games there), you can experiment with your moves before placing a stone.

Greetings, Tom

Isn't ogs plagued by the fact that most people below 20k aren't actually 20k?

[oren]

Isn't ogs plagued by the fact that most people below 20k aren't actually 20k?

If you ignore the ratings, it's not bad though.

I would recommend kgs over it for beginners just due to more players and teaching.

[joellercoaster]

Isn't ogs plagued by the fact that most people below 20k aren't actually 20k?

I think it's more that the kyu grades on OGS aren't linear (even though might be in terms of ELO rating ), and the area between 30k and 20k (in particular) is tougher than people used to other servers might expect! I don't think it sounds like any of the online servers' grading systems line up, do they?

OGS is the only rank I have (and I am trying to follow Bill's advice to not think of myself as having a rating at all while I am a beginner), so this is of course all based on what others have said.

[Abyssinica]

They don't, but you'd expect them to be fairly close! I'm, personally, wary of any server that allows you to select your rank. I'm 6d on ogs, and I can always just become 6d again whenever I want. I just don't like the fact that

1. You can select your own rank on ogs (Even though it still has that provisional system)
2. You can have ranked 9x9 and 13x13 games
3. Most games played on it are correspondance. (Just a personal preference)

Ogs also seems to be a bit more dead than kgs. Maybe I'll see 5 or so games open at a time, and the vast majority of them are correspondance.

I don't know how igs works, but if it allows you to select your rank too, then I'd just play on kgs as a beginner because 1. You have to work for your rank which 2.Means that actual beginners will be in the 30-20k range most of the time. Not sure how many people sandbag there, but Tygem 18k is the wild wild west.

[StlenVlr]

You are sabotaging yourself if you try to study the game too early on. The best and easiest way to learn the game is by having 49 parts playing games against whoever you can find, 1 part studying(reading about ideas and such). Doing anything else likely won't benefit you, and there's a very real chance that you are limiting your own improvement rate severely by too much theoretical study.

The only studying I'd really recommend is watching others play, or reviewing your own games every once in a while(every 50 games or so). Keep at this for 400 or so games and you should be 10k. Keep at it for 1500 games and you should be 1d. If you happen to have access to good learning resources, you may do it, but try not to overdo it. I've seen plenty of promising players just indulge in theoretical resources and stop improving as they start to play less. Don't do that.

The only study that's actually efficient is tsumego, and even that I'd apply at most as much as you play games. Half an hour of tsumego practice per every game played, or so.